Problems with bosses

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Xfing
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Problems with bosses

Post by Xfing » Fri Jul 11, 2014 4:32 pm

I also realize this has been discussed already, but I can't really seem to find the thread, and I think it was off-topic anyway.

After tampering with the bosses' stats in the HAM, I've noticed that all of them exhibit some unnatural behavior: they have a low tendency to teleport, and they don't play their perpetual sound. They still play sounds assigned to "see" and "attack" in single repetitions, though, and attack and move around normally (if they are capable of moving, that is). Sometimes they cloak, but they remain cloaked for a while then return to uncloaking. That way they can sit in the same spot for long enough to be killed from the distance.

However, sometimes they "awaken" and start doing all the things they should be doing, including frequent teleportation and start playing their perpetual sound. I'm not sure what it takes for them to "awaken", though. It seems to happen randomly, flying really close to the robot may have something to do with that. Anyway, the awakening is signalled by the boss' first teleportation - once that happens, a more aggressive AI routine seems to be loaded and the robot starts making the constant sound and teleporting around.

I played one or two bosses in Descent 2 with a regular HAM with only the sounds modified, and it seems the robots don't have such problems as the diminished tendency to teleport doesn't seem to exist. On the other hand, the only stuff I've modified for those robots is strength, sometimes weaponry, boss flag (to alter their resistances) and the number of plasma blobs they give off after being shot with energy. Could one of these parameters have tampered with the robots' AI? The occurences are still pretty random to me and their cause is difficult for me to ascertain. Some bosses work well right off the bat, some take time to awaken and some keep their dumber AI routine right until they're destroyed. Has anyone had the same problem?
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Re: Problems with bosses

Post by mike8887123 » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:38 am

I put the red fatty boss at the end of my level 4, and I modified his texture to be white. He acts fine every single time. However, I put the alien1 boss in another one of my levels, and he doesn't teleport. I modified his textures too. I might have modified his strength or weapons IIRC.

I think there is something the game developers knew about (something seemingly irrelevant) that affects the AI. Knowing about it, they were able to avoid the glitch, but we can't.

I noticed in D2 counterstrike (unmodified) that sometimes certain bosses don't make the perpetual noise. I've fought the alien2 boss repetitively with almighty on (just for kicks). Sometimes he doesn't teleport or make the noise, but he still cloaks (cloaks without teleport). Other times he does teleport and make the noise. On the times he doesn't teleport, it takes him longer to first cloak and the perpetual noise is absent. On the times he does teleport, he first-cloaks much more quickly and the perpetual noise is present.

Also, I've noticed the "kicking on" of AI you mentioned in the alien2 boss. In some fights, it starts out as a non-teleport fight (like I've mentioned). And it seems as if the perpetual noise and the teleporting both kick on simultaneously toward the end. Perhaps his running life value has something to do with it. It seems as if he does it closely before his death.

I've also noticed, in counterstrike, that the Brimspark boss sometimes doesn't make the perpetual noise but still makes the see and attack noises (or at least one of them).

Has anyone else noticed this kind of thing?

Lastly, I don't know how this helps you, but I thought I'd mention it. I have only made 2 boss levels so far, and one I might ditch. So I'm not as experienced either. Still, I thought I'd mention it here.
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Re: Problems with bosses

Post by Xfing » Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:06 am

So it looks like an intrinsic glitch... I haven't yet determined whether it also occurs when playing with a totally unmodified HAM file, but it might. If that's the cause, then maybe it's something about a checksum or something like that? I'm at a loss here.
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Re: Problems with bosses

Post by LightWolf » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:44 pm

(Yes, IK it's about a year late)

Try finalizing the HXM in DMB2. For me it has worked wonders with previous DLE HXM glitches. :roll:
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Re: Problems with bosses

Post by Alter-Fox » Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:52 pm

Xfing is working with a modified HAM file, not HXMs.

But... would it be worth finding out whether the same glitches happen if you store the boss mods in an HXM instead of the main HAM?
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Re: Problems with bosses

Post by Xfing » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:28 am

Thing is, this has been happening to me in Counterstrike, on regular files too. I can't really put my finger on what causes it. Lightwolf may be on to something though
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Re: Problems with bosses

Post by Alter-Fox » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:22 am

This is just my two cents, but I don't think it's possible to test it properly if the base files are bugging out too.
It would be like trying to do a pharmaceutical study without a control group. The information would be there without any context, you'd have no idea what it's saying.

Your first order of business needs to be to get an install of Descent 2 where the bosses behave properly in the main campaign on the regular files, then test your HAM under the same conditions. At this point it might be working and you just wouldn't know; and trying to get it to work on an install where something's already broken could hurt more than it helps.
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