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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:26 am 
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So I’m reading that article and thinking…yea this guy has a point…but then as per usual I get to the fucked up part…

So now we have another racially divisive term “white socialism” which of course is based on a lie and a misconception, and the misconception could easily be considered a lie, but I’m being generous.

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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:53 pm 
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not really, what he describes is a very real phenomenon, that resulted in defacto benefits to a mainly white lower middle class to upper middle class group. You might not like the charged term, but it is a sort of publicly funded gift that has traditionally been handed to the white collar and unionized blue collar labor, plus government workers. Jobs that until the 80s almost exclusively went to white people in America. The article notes a nostalgia to go back to THAT reality by some, preventing them from embracing what would be best for all. As you note, the author has a point, there.

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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:37 pm 
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I could get behind this idea and it gets expensive insurance out of your regular doctor visits loop entirely. What does everyone think?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/kind-doc ... 07240.html

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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:52 pm 
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Noooo, paying for health care without insurance…the single payer crowd will never approve.

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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:06 pm 
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Spidey wrote:
Noooo, paying for health care without insurance…the single payer crowd will never approve.

Nah, we just don't like insurance for this sort of thing in the first place.


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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:35 pm 
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And just what the hell do you think single payer is?

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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:57 am 
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It's the same thing you have, except it doesn't cost as much.


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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:19 am 
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No one should need "insurance" for everyday doctor visits. Insurance should only be for catastrophic illnesses, you know, like house or car insurance is used for? :wink:

I noticed the stock market is tanking today. The excuse of the day is that the Trumpcare ain't going to pass Congress because the of Freedom Caucus and that they'll start blocking EVERYTHING Trump wants in the future. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:28 pm 
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don't know who's floating THAT excuse, but mainly the issue today is interest rates seem stuck at a spot where the financial institution profits are stagnated as well. Tech stocks were doing fine, even hit a record on the NASDAQ for a wee bit. Big loser on the Dow was Goldman Sachs.

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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:09 pm 
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They were still floating it today on CNBC. Thursday's vote will tell. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:36 pm 
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I personally hope the bill doesn't pass just to teach Ryan a lesson. They still have plenty of time before the 2018 season to get the dam thing right. Trump has to learn getting a bill passed just to prove a point will not sit well with the electorate. What ever happened to to the 2015 bill that had bipartisan support and got shot down by Obama?


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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:16 pm 
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So why didn't this particular bill get reintroduced as a replacement if it was so great and wonderful? Did Paul Ryan want his own bill put forth instead just like the egotistical brat he is? Frankly, I'm with you on this one woody. I hope this mess ends up being Ryan's Waterloo because in a just released interview, Trump is now blaming Ryan for the whole debacle in order to cover his presidential ass. I'm betting Trump would love to say: "You're fired!", but I guess ruining Ryan's political aspirations is the next best thing.

Meanwhile, Trump is busy reliving his childhood by playing truck driver while the health care for millions of Americans melts down. Honk, honk, varroooom, varroooom.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/president-tr ... .sep=table

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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:13 am 
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and, given that Ryan was briefed by Nunes on that supposed 'information' that Nunes felt compelled to dash to the White House with, good riddance.

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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:57 am 
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What a lot of people don't understand (myself included) is why they didn't reintroduce the replacement bill submitted back in 2015 (I think it was then). The bill had bi-partisan support yet Ryan sought to introduce a Obama lite version.


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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:31 am 
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It could be that Paul Ryan has a giant ego, really wants to kill Medicare and his way is the most efficient. Originally, Obamacare pretty much gave a 12 year extension to the life of the Medicare trust fund by putting in reductions in waste, fraud and abuse, helping save money within the system.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnwasik/ ... 4ca2eb5e61

https://www.medicareresources.org/blog/ ... e-know-it/

The new Trump/Ryan plan instead erodes the trust current fund life by about 3 years, that is if no other drastic changes have been slipped in during all this deal making, accelerating it's future demise, or in Ryan's best wet dream, privatizing it. Ryan hates seniors and it's showing. I hope the spoiled prick dies old, sick and penniless.

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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:02 pm 
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The House killed their bill. Then the Ryan comes to the mike and has the gall to blame the Dems for HIS failure to get a consensus within his OWN damned party. Ryan's a damned effing SOB! He can't even take personal responsibility for his own failure. They're all evil greedy bastards with no integrity and no compassion. Now they're going to just sit back and let Obamacare melt down, because that's what they and Trump want now as some form of sick punishment and with some states with only one insurer in the marketplace this year, that's pretty much guaranteed. I'm already going to have to pay a huge penalty for not having insurance for this year and a lot of people in the individual market are in the same boat as I am. I say, eff the idiot Democrats and the self-serving Republicans for creating this nightmare of a situation. :x

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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:41 pm 
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tonight, Schumer(didn't think he was up to it, frankly) grabbed his fellow New Yorker firmly by the balls. He went on National TV at dinner time and said plainly: "remove the repeal part, and we'll GLADLY participate in discussions of how to make it BETTER." Clearly, that is what the public really wants(despite the fact that what they really need is Universal Health Coverage). That is essentially what Trump campaigned on doing. The GOP did Trump no favors, but he needs them for other stuff, and especially to try and blunt the impact of the Russian thing. Tough spot, Orange Guy. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:36 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:38 am 
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woodchip wrote:
What a lot of people don't understand (myself included) is why they didn't reintroduce the replacement bill submitted back in 2015 (I think it was then). The bill had bi-partisan support yet Ryan sought to introduce a Obama lite version.

I sort of remember that, but wasn't it a cycle earlier(like 2013). Lots of new Freedom Caucus types, and they wouldn't have supported that one, either, as it still retained a certain minimal requirement for coverage to maintain. Plus, as time goes by, and as I suggested here years ago, the ACA is going to prove a critical lifesaver for more people the longer it goes forward. I suggested in 2012 that they were going to have just that difficulty, and they did. The non-ideologue wing saw those angry town halls, were told of the district voter phone calls and letters and determined they weren't going to face that going to a re-election campaign next year. Also explains the non-vote decision. No one ends up on record. Everyone gets a year to spin their role in the failure to follow through on the 7 year promise.
Oh, and those same town halls and other efforts are now likely to be repeated on either the Tax proposals, which will doubtless be a boon to the wealthy, and the proposed budget, a bludgeon to the poor and gift to the most fraud ridden branch of the our government(the Pentagon).

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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 1:57 pm 
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I'd like to hear from any tea party member concerning their opinion on Trump's failure to repeal Obamacare. It WAS one of THEE main reasons most of them gave for voting in Trump and he failed miserably, all at the hands of his own party, specifically the Freedom Caucus, who wanted a total repeal. Why Trump insisted on repeal and replace, I'll never know. So much for the art of the deal. Epic fail. Are they mad, resigned or what? Woodchip?

Slick, what's going to happen to the ACA as more and more insurance companies leave the exchanges? In Oregon, our options are getting fewer and even more expensive. I hate to see what next year's going to bring for premium rates when they've already skyrocketed THIS year for non-working individuals over 60. This particular group is getting screwed the most and the Dems don't seem to care. I sure as hell know that the Republicans didn't give a rat's ass with the even higher premium rates for the over 60 set with their failed plan.

By the way, the Dems should stop with their gloating over Trump's failure because the increasing costs problem still hasn't been addressed and that will eventually come home to roost for everyone. It's the elephant in the room. Plus, a lot of people dropped their insurance this year because of the very high premiums and when tax time comes around in 2018, they will be pissed and ready for a change. With a solid GOP controlling the government, there sure isn't going to be any help from that camp in fixing what needs fixing with the ACA. The Dems have painted themselves into a corner with no exit. :wink:

https://www.healthinsurance.org/blog/20 ... -what-now/

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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:38 pm 
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Saw a fantastic one-liner earlier: "Ironic that Trump and Ryan didn't have a Plan B."


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 Post subject: Re: Cruz vs Sanders, Obamacare debate!
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:25 pm 
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That's the problem. They went with "Plan B" first, but their supporters thought that they were going with "Plan A", which was the straight across repeal.

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