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 Post subject: Believe in hard work and meritocracy?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:39 pm 
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Why...you must be a white supremacist! (Or at least believe in "white ideology.")

Quote:
A Pennsylvania State University-Brandywine professor thinks college faculty need to do more to undermine their students' belief in "meritocracy" and the value of "hard work."

The students are "are socialized to believe that we got to where we are…because of our own individual efforts," according to the prof, who wants colleagues to stop "perpetuating and reifying whiteness."

Pennsylvania State University-Brandywine professor criticized her students’ belief in “meritocracy” and “hard work” in an academic article published Thursday.

Angela Putman, who teaches public speaking at Penn State-Brandywine, designed a comprehensive three-day seminar on “white privilege” for her students, then interviewed 12 attendees on their belief in meritocracy and equal opportunity.


https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=9874

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 Post subject: Re: Believe in hard work and meritocracy?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:06 pm 
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Good. The "American dream" is pretty much a complete crock of shit these days.


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 Post subject: Re: Believe in hard work and meritocracy?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:36 pm 
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How would you define the American Dream NS?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-ameri ... d-riddance

Historian James Truslow Adams, defined it as such back in 1931 in his The Epic of America. In fact, it sounds down right socialistic since he was probably influenced by the Depression going on at the time. :wink:

James Truslow Adams wrote:
“The American Dream is that dream of a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement. It is a difficult dream for the European upper classes to interpret adequately, and too many of us ourselves have grown weary and mistrustful of it. It is not a dream of motor cars and high wages merely, but a dream of social order in which each man and each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable, and be recognized by others for what they are, regardless of the fortuitous circumstances of birth or position.”


That's far different than the way we tend to think of it today. People are more apt to think it as having to do with getting married, getting a high paying job, having children, buying a house in suburbia and getting a mortgage, paying off their student debt, having the ability to buy and own a car (or 2 or 3) and accumulating more and more possessions.

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 Post subject: Re: Believe in hard work and meritocracy?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:56 pm 
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anyone who thinks we have a meritocracy, or that where you start is not usually where you finish socioeconomically in the US is a fool. Rich folks have been selling that crock for 160 years now.


edit--by way of how tight a correllation there is to wealth at birth and affluence at death, insurance actuaries peg life expectancy to the ZIP CODE at birth. And life expectancy is tightly linked to socioeconomic status. Sideline to that fact is who is harmed by raising age thresholds for Social Security.

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 Post subject: Re: Believe in hard work and meritocracy?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:57 pm 
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That prof(the campus is just up the river, in the Brandywine valley headwater area, from my Delaware home) is a well known advocate against systemic white privilege. Sometimes, she is far off base, or a bit hyperbolic to me. However, on this matter she is correct, although my personal opinion that much of what she rails against is intertwined with poverty. White privilege has kept blacks far below whites in terms of median income, but the is the poverty itselt that fucks you over under the system we've been building since Ronnie Reagan. We had a limited, but steady, upward mobility up to that point, and I'm using Reagan as a milepost not a blame point here.

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 Post subject: Re: Believe in hard work and meritocracy?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:04 pm 
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Okay, two things strike me as disingenuous here. Meritocracy as a form of "white privilege"... What kind of SJW bullshit is that? I'd be delighted to give this professor a tour of Vancouver's downtown east side, show her all the white homeless and disenfranchised people down there and ask her simply... where is their white privilege? And telling that every other race that if they don't achieve their goals in life can be blamed on "white ideology" instead of... not working hard is damming and patronizing as fuck.

Obama was who he was because even with the obstacles he faced, he still overcame them. Oprah as well -- she faced staggering odds yet she achieved and created her own television company that rakes in millions. Sally Ride -- first American and LGBT woman in space. All have used their own merits to achieve what they did.

"You can't achieve what these people achieved because white privilege" RUDE.


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 Post subject: Re: Believe in hard work and meritocracy?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:10 am 
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what the fuck does SJW stand for again? And why is the term suddenly being beaten to death?

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 Post subject: Re: Believe in hard work and meritocracy?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:12 am 
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Ferno wrote:
Okay, two things strike me as disingenuous here. Meritocracy as a form of "white privilege"... What kind of SJW bullshit is that? I'd be delighted to give this professor a tour of Vancouver's downtown east side, show her all the white homeless and disenfranchised people down there and ask her simply... where is their white privilege? And telling that every other race that if they don't achieve their goals in life can be blamed on "white ideology" instead of... not working hard is damming and patronizing as fuck.

Obama was who he was because even with the obstacles he faced, he still overcame them. Oprah as well -- she faced staggering odds yet she achieved and created her own television company that rakes in millions. Sally Ride -- first American and LGBT woman in space. All have used their own merits to achieve what they did.

"You can't achieve what these people achieved because white privilege" RUDE.


umm, from my seat, both Obama and Oprah succeeded DESPITE white privilege, and did so by playing to white supporters to get that success. I still don't find isolated examples any more convincing with black people as the examples as any other variation of the old story that has been going around the US for decades. The reality is, born rich and die rich, born poor and die poor, an overwhelming amount of the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Believe in hard work and meritocracy?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:50 pm 
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Ferno wrote:
Meritocracy as a form of "white privilege"... What kind of SJW bullshit is that?

There is a little truth in it, at least in the US.

My friend forced me to spend an afternoon reading a copy of Foreign Affairs Magazine (because some of my friends are just that stuffy) which was about 60+ pages of essays breaking down the concept of Meritocracy, it's history in Europe and America, and how it shapes up in practice. What generally happens is that people who have all the merit don't get all the opportunities. So, while Meritocracy is an interesting idea to strive for, meritorious people who achieve success provide opportunities to their in-group that allow their relatives and offspring to become more meritorious themselves. In the US that turns into white privilege.

I wish I could link to that issue, but it's not online. Most of the essays were in response to a book written by Chris Hayes titled "Twilight of the Elites: America After Meritocracy". (I have not read the book, only responses to it.)

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 Post subject: Re: Believe in hard work and meritocracy?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:45 pm 
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callmeslick wrote:
umm, from my seat, both Obama and Oprah succeeded DESPITE white privilege, and did so by playing to white supporters to get that success. I still don't find isolated examples any more convincing with black people as the examples as any other variation of the old story that has been going around the US for decades. The reality is, born rich and die rich, born poor and die poor, an overwhelming amount of the time.



Yes, now it's like that for a lot of people. Others, like Ms. Ride as I've mentioned have climbed the ladder to success without playing to whites. Old money as you are familiar with became old money because the founders worked their sorry asses off. The King Ranch (which I read about to pass the time), was an example of meritocracy. Yes, it's old money as well. There are just about as many examples of pure meritocracy as there are "born rich die rich; born poor die poor".


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 Post subject: Re: Believe in hard work and meritocracy?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:58 am 
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no, there are not, Ferno. Keep buying that bullshit, and lapping up the handful of examples you can find from a society of 300 million people. Social mobility is a MYTH.

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