Vote rigging...the DNC way:

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Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by Nightshade »

They feel the "Bern" yet?

Media Blackout Over Lawsuit Accusing DNC Of Rigging Primaries
The mainstream media continue to censor coverage of a looming DNC lawsuit that accuses the Democrat Party of rigging the 2016 primaries in favor of Hillary Clinton.

Since October 2016, when the lawsuit was issued, reporters and pundits have ignored a lawsuit that looks set to prove that the Democratic National Committee systemically rigged the primaries in order to ensure Hillary Clinton won over Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders.

The lawsuit was issued after shocking documents surfaced by hacker Guccifer 2.0 that shows the party and DNC chair Debbie Wasserman colluding “by hook or by crook” to make Sanders lose.

The class-action suit was filed in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida in October, accusing both the DNC and Wasserman Schultz of “intentional, willful, wanton, and malicious” conduct in violating Article 5, Section 4 of the DNC Charter.

Lifezette.com reports: They represent three classes of plaintiffs: donors to the DNC, donors to the Bernie Sanders campaign, and all registered Democrats — and they want their money back.

On April 25, the court held a hearing on a motion to dismiss, with the DNC’s lawyers arguing that the party has every right to pick candidates in back rooms.

“There’s no contractual obligation here … it’s not a situation where a promise has been made that is an enforceable promise,” DNC lawyer Bruce Spiva argued in court.

The major news organizations shunned the controversy and allowed it to slip into near-oblivion as they hammered President Trump.

An article published Saturday on the liberal progressive website Salon notes that the mainstream media “almost completely blacked out coverage of this lawsuit.”

A writer for the Observer wrote on Monday: “In large part, the mainstream media [have] not covered the lawsuit in the six months between the court’s initial hearings in October 2016 to its latest hearing on April 25, 2017.”

The revelation that the Democratic Party is fine with rigging elections, and has no qualms about lying to its members and pretending to be neutral, is certainly interesting news. But many in the media apparently didn’t want anyone to pay too much attention to this.

“For Sanders supporters, the lawsuit provides an opportunity for vindication for being cheated and attacked by the Democratic establishment,” Observer reporter Michael Sainato wrote. “Now, the DNC is on record arguing that its voters have no reason to trust it to maintain free and fair elections.”

“Spiva’s defense is blatant proof that despite the fact that the DNC fashions itself as the party of the people, it is openly and clearly an oligarchy — a fact also made clear by its use of superdelgates,” Salon writer Sophia McClennen wrote.

A WikiLeaks document dump also revealed that former interim DNC chair Donna Brazile appeared to favor Clinton when she leaked a Democratic primary debate question to Clinton in an email. Sanders supporters cried fowl. But the media largely spurned them in favor of dogging Trump.

“The elephant in the room for the DNC isn’t Trump or the GOP or Bernie bros or Russian hackers; it is its own elitist, corporatist, cronyist, corrupt system that consistently refuses to listen to the will of the people it hopes to represent,” McClennen wrote. “This all proves that the DNC has a serious problem not only with the democratic process but also with the very idea of representing the will of its constituents.”
http://yournewswire.com/media-blackout- ... primaries/
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by callmeslick »

bull★■◆● article, chock full of maybes, 'it is reported', and opinion. Yes, there is a pending lawsuit. Here's vote rigging the GOP way. The SCOTUS rejected it, soundly and finally:http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-top ... li=BBnb7Kz


I ask the readers, which carried the greatest risk for actually affecting an outcome?
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by Jeff250 »

DNC primaries are designed to maximize the illusion of choice while minimizing its availability.
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by Ferno »

Now you're bringing conspiracy theories into this place, TB? In what universe did you think this was okay?

Just how low are you going to bring down the bar with your hateboner?
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by Spidey »

The Democratic primaries are already rigged simply by default, why would anybody think to file a lawsuit.
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by Tunnelcat »

Both parties do it, but the Republicans have elevated gerrymandering to a high art. :wink:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... story.html
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by callmeslick »

Jeff250 wrote:DNC primaries are designed to maximize the illusion of choice while minimizing its availability.
having worked in and around them since 1980, I'd be curious how you came to that one.........ever seen a New Hampshire Dem primary ballot without at least 12 names? I never have. The choice is there, but the early primaries in both parties thin the herd pretty quick. Last year's GOP was sort of an odd duck, insofar as we saw more of a trickling effect, but that may have been a Trump sidelight.
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by callmeslick »

Spidey wrote:The Democratic primaries are already rigged simply by default, why would anybody think to file a lawsuit.
see my prior response. Feel free to enlighten us with your direct proof of that assertion.
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by callmeslick »

look folks, you can have issue with exactly what is generated by the current primary process, which puts demands on short term fundraising and ground game(which is costly), and the fact that around 8% of the population weeds matters down to the two viable candidates in the end. You can have issue with a two party system that essentially strangles any shot of a third party coming close to success(see this year, should you EVER need proof of that) or an Independant candidacy of any sort. The bottom line is that the primary rules are known to all candidates, the party committees are known and there is nothing stating they cannot have favored candidates. I repeat, I've never seen anything by way of serious vote rigging, process rigging or really much past the normal rough and tumble of politics. And, frankly, if you cannot negotiate that minefield at the Presidential level, you have no business running for the office. Nothing implied in that lawsuit really affected the actual turnout to vote directly, which is the game the GOP has been playing and playing hard for years. Hell, they are still at it, with the goofy 'commission' to look into voting fraud, led by the guy who's been sued a half dozen times for illegally disenfranchising voters. Voting privileges should be extended to EVERY eligible citizen without ANY hoops to jump though, and casting a ballot should be EASY(how to do so varies with the nature of the states).
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by Spidey »

The "proof" is right there in the process if you open your eyes...it's called "Super Delegates".

And no, I don't really want to have a semantic debate, so if you wish to call it something other than "rigging" that is fine with me. Call it whatever you want.

As far as the rules regarding having preferred candidates...that is exactly why I asked what is the point of suing. (as you say...all of these things are known going in)
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by Tunnelcat »

What's the point in suing? The Dems were punished for their arrogance and assumptions. The candidate they "picked" during their backroom rigging, Hillary Clinton, lost the election. I sure as hell could have told them that before they blew it.
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by callmeslick »

Spidey, the Super Delegate thing was put in place to avoid dominance in low-turnout races by some zealot extremist. In practice, they are really, really benign. Had you polled the Supers before 2008, they would have been 90% committed to Clinton, but come convention time, they went to Obama. This year, the handful I know agonized between the two choices.
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by Jeff250 »

callmeslick wrote:Spidey, the Super Delegate thing was put in place to avoid dominance in low-turnout races by some zealot extremist.
A more honest way of saying the same thing is that they were put into place so that party elites could put their fingers on the scale.

When 98% of superdelegates polled all throw their weight behind the same candidate before a single state voted, then they gave up even trying anymore to even have the appearance of choice.

Even though she won by the party's rules, Hillary Clinton's nomination was haunted by a notable lack of legitimacy, the same kind that would normally be restricted to elections in less democratic countries.
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by callmeslick »

Jeff250 wrote:
callmeslick wrote:Spidey, the Super Delegate thing was put in place to avoid dominance in low-turnout races by some zealot extremist.
A more honest way of saying the same thing is that they were put into place so that party elites could put their fingers on the scale.

When 98% of superdelegates polled all throw their weight behind the same candidate before a single state voted, then they gave up even trying anymore to even have the appearance of choice.

Even though she won by the party's rules, Hillary Clinton's nomination was haunted by a notable lack of legitimacy, the same kind that would normally be restricted to elections in less democratic countries.
you apparently never paid attention before this one. I'm trying to throw you a bone here, because you clearly have ZERO idea how this works. The Primaries are a PARTY FUNCTION, like the conventions which nominate themselves. They are NOT an open election, never have been. Trying to equate that to the rules for a GENERAL ELECTION are like comparing apples to oranges.
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

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callmeslick wrote:you apparently never paid attention before this one. I'm trying to throw you a bone here, because you clearly have ZERO idea how this works. The Primaries are a PARTY FUNCTION, like the conventions which nominate themselves. They are NOT an open election, never have been. Trying to equate that to the rules for a GENERAL ELECTION are like comparing apples to oranges.
Everyone here already knows that primaries are party functions. But them being party functions doesn't make them immune from criticism, and all we're doing so far is calling a turd a turd.

My primary claims so far have been:

1) DNC primaries are designed to maximize the illusion of choice while minimizing its availability.
2) Party elites put superdelegates into place so that they could put their fingers on the scale.
3) Hillary Clinton's nomination was haunted by a lack of legitimacy.

If you think that it's best for the Democratic Party if party elites put their fingers on the scale to override the will of ordinary party members, then just defend that point instead of whatever it is your approach has been to this topic thus far.
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

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Jeff250 wrote:If you think that it's best for the Democratic Party if party elites put their fingers on the scale to override the will of ordinary party members, then just defend that point instead of whatever it is your approach has been to this topic thus far.
I don't really have a problem with the concept of putting a finger on the scale. It does dull the responsiveness to popular will, but popular will can be really ★■◆●ing stupid at times. Popular will ultimately wins over time, but I think it should be slowed just enough to work out the stupid. How much weight you add to the scale is debatable for me.
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

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my point is that a party nominating process can be whatever they deem it to be. Appearances can be negative to some, but frankly, we came up with better candidates from smoke filled rooms.
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by Tunnelcat »

That's how we got Hillary isn't it? How's that better when she clearly was a Democratic poison pill? :wink:
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

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Vander wrote:I don't really have a problem with the concept of putting a finger on the scale. It does dull the responsiveness to popular will, but popular will can be really ★■◆●ing stupid at times. Popular will ultimately wins over time, but I think it should be slowed just enough to work out the stupid. How much weight you add to the scale is debatable for me.
I would feel better about this argument if their mechanism were clearly designed to actually slow change instead of simply transferring power from one group of people who can be really ★■◆●ing stupid at times to a different group of people who can be really ★■◆●ing stupid at times. And although hasty change can be really ★■◆●ing stupid at times, so can historical baggage, and so it's not clear to me that even the pure act of slowing down change is a net win in that regard.
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

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Tunnelcat wrote:That's how we got Hillary isn't it? How's that better when she clearly was a Democratic poison pill? :wink:
oh, good lord, no. She wouldn't have come near the nominaton had the old heads controlled things. In the old days, Biden would have been nominated on the first night and everyone would have eaten lobster thermador and partied for three days.
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

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I don't really disagree with much of that. My comment was more conceptual than directed at any specific instance. I would imagine that the value of such a concept varies between constituencies, levels of involvement, etc. I think the powers that would accrue in the abstraction layer I'm envisioning would be both good and bad. Experience vs. Cronyism, etc.
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

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I know Woody is old enough, but how many of the rest of your even remember before there even WERE primaries that were binding?
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by Tunnelcat »

I believe in 1982, but my memory is hazy because I was young and working hard at making a living and I wasn't paying attention to things like that, unfortunately. :wink:
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

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callmeslick wrote:my point is that a party nominating process can be whatever they deem it to be. Appearances can be negative to some, but frankly, we came up with better candidates from smoke filled rooms.
Here's the thing though slick: if you're going to profess to be the party "of the people," you need to actually pay attention to what the people say. Or at the very very least, pay attention to how what you do comes across to said people. What drives me nuts about the Democratic Party right now is not only that that managed to blow what should have been one of the most slam-dunk elections in American history, but that public statements from some of the higher-ups seem to suggest that most of them still haven't learned their goddamn lesson. It's extremely likely that Hillary would have won the nomination regardless of anything else, so just sit back, let it happen, and avoid the massive PR nightmare that is back-room party machinations. We don't need that bull★■◆● in the 21st century.
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by callmeslick »

Tunnelcat wrote:I believe in 1982, but my memory is hazy because I was young and working hard at making a living and I wasn't paying attention to things like that, unfortunately. :wink:
no, they were pretty much established by then. 1972 may have been the last one dominated by state caucus electors, but,as you say, memory gets hazy.
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

Post by Tunnelcat »

Hell, in 1972, I was in high school and wasn't interested in civics and politics. It's funny how that is, because it seems that when you get old, politics becomes far more interesting.... and more important.
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Re: Vote rigging...the DNC way:

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in 1972, I was in high school, too. The difference being that I was raised to pay attention to politics and instilled with how vital it is to one's personal economics and life trajectory.
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