Rejection of reality...

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Rejection of reality...

Post by Nightshade » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:22 pm

...when it doesn't suit your worldview.
It was a strange moment of triumph against racism: The gun-slinging white supremacist Craig Cobb, dressed up for daytime TV in a dark suit and red tie, hearing that his DNA testing revealed his ancestry to be only “86% European, and … 14% Sub-Saharan African.”

The studio audience whooped and laughed and cheered. And Cobb — who was, in 2013, charged with terrorizing people while trying to create an all-white enclave in North Dakota — reacted like a sore loser in the schoolyard.
About a third of the people posting their results were pleased with what they found. “Pretty damn pure blood,” said a user with the username Sloth. But the majority didn’t find themselves in that situation. Instead, the community often helped them reject the test, or argue with its results.

Some rejected the tests entirely, saying that an individual’s knowledge about his or her own genealogy is better than whatever a genetic test can reveal. “They will talk about the mirror test,” said Panofsky, who is a sociologist of science at UCLA’s Institute for Society and Genetics. “They will say things like, ‘If you see a Jew in the mirror looking back at you, that’s a problem; if you don’t, you’re fine.'” Others, he said, responded to unwanted genetic results by saying that those kinds of tests don’t matter if you are truly committed to being a white nationalist. Yet others tried to discredit the genetic tests as a Jewish conspiracy “that is trying to confuse true white Americans about their ancestry,” Panofsky said.
http://www.businessinsider.com/white-na ... lts-2017-8
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Re: Rejection of reality...

Post by Tunnelcat » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:53 am

Depending on if you believe in the Bible or evolution, every human in existence today came from either the Middle East, or Africa, regions with darker skinned people. There was no "white skin" to begin with. :wink:
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Re: Rejection of reality...

Post by callmeslick » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:31 am

well, to be honest, from a biologists perspective, we don't have the first clue what shade of beige/tan/brown the initial homo sapiens had, or it were even any more uniform that the pigmentation of other mammals. What IS clear is that dark skin along with a set of related genetics, has clearly evolved and rather early on, in tropical and subtropical regions. The white folks with poor malaria resistance simply died off in such numbers as to be essentially bred out of the population to whatever extent they existed. Most human migratory models I've ever seen would seem to place Europe towards the end of the human overspread, well after Africa, the Fertile Crescent regions, and Asia. The population of the regions from the Caucasus westward probably involved folks of various shades, but once again, the whiter folks were better adapted to the climate, back when being adapted to the climate meant life and death. Recent history(like the past 1000 years) has shown so much interregional mixing of bloodlines as to make any genetic distinctions sort of laughable now.
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Re: Rejection of reality...

Post by Tunnelcat » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:35 am

If evolution holds sway, weren't we all covered in hair to begin with anyway? :wink:
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Re: Rejection of reality...

Post by Grendel » Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:32 pm

We still are :P
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Re: Rejection of reality...

Post by Tunnelcat » Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:25 pm

That's an insult to every hairy ape with half a brain! :P
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Re: Rejection of reality...

Post by Nightshade » Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:15 pm

callmeslick wrote:well, to be honest, from a biologists perspective, we don't have the first clue what shade of beige/tan/brown the initial homo sapiens had, or it were even any more uniform that the pigmentation of other mammals. What IS clear is that dark skin along with a set of related genetics, has clearly evolved and rather early on, in tropical and subtropical regions. The white folks with poor malaria resistance simply died off in such numbers as to be essentially bred out of the population to whatever extent they existed. Most human migratory models I've ever seen would seem to place Europe towards the end of the human overspread, well after Africa, the Fertile Crescent regions, and Asia. The population of the regions from the Caucasus westward probably involved folks of various shades, but once again, the whiter folks were better adapted to the climate, back when being adapted to the climate meant life and death. Recent history(like the past 1000 years) has shown so much interregional mixing of bloodlines as to make any genetic distinctions sort of laughable now.
My question is- why is race and/or color so important to you slick?
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Re: Rejection of reality...

Post by Tunnelcat » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:01 pm

Nightshade wrote:My question is- why is race and/or color so important to you slick?
Why does it seem so important to YOU? I haven't seen you repudiate Nazism or White Supremacy in the strongest possible terms, yet you voted for a president who wore that moniker on his sleeve like a badge of honor and used it to unite a racist white male base just to win the presidency. Trump still goes to his little nationally unproductive and divisive rallies just to assuage his little fragile ego and invariably, he does some more race baiting and immigrant bashing because it gets him cheers. In fact, I'm betting that he's going to travel to Arizona, have another rally on the taxpayer's dime despite calls by the Democratic Governor to not come and then as a side, pardon convicted felon and asshole of the year Sheriff Joe Arpaio, one of Arizona's biggest racists and violators of human rights. Buuuuut, I don't have time to read all day, so maybe I missed a few.

You have posted quite a few topics and they're all a blur now, most of them relating to those evil homosexuals and those racist liberals stirring up the pot. Well, it's time to call the kettle black. You're a member of the Republican Party, which now seems to be the party of the xenophobes, white nationalists and Nazis. In fact, ever since LBJ's passing of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and then Nixon's Southern Strategy, it's been the Republicans who've embraced the Southern racists, all in order to get more votes and win. Republicans have been the ones dancing with the devil. Is your party now having a little bout of cognitive dissonance since they elected Trump? The "intersectionalism" I was talking about in your other thread seems to have occurred in your own party and now they OWN it, not the liberals. Oh, and that's yet another topic you've seen fit to abandon because you've had no desire to discuss it.

https://newrepublic.com/article/136046/ ... rals-trump
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Re: Rejection of reality...

Post by callmeslick » Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:06 pm

sorta wierd, in my 62 years, I never thought past the long discovered link of genetics around pigmentation to gene coding for malarial resistance in Red Blood Cells, to any pigmentation genetics at all until this discussion. Nope, race really never did matter to me much, unless some asshole fascist comes along and wishes to denigrate a race, a religion, or group. If the shoe fits.........
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Re: Rejection of reality...

Post by Ferno » Fri Aug 18, 2017 5:27 pm

TC: I'm thinking the only reason it's so important to him is he's got some sort of void in his life. It's too bad he decided to fill that void with hate.
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Re: Rejection of reality...

Post by Nightshade » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:16 pm

Tunnelcat wrote:Why does it seem so important to YOU?
It's not. That's what I've been saying on this BB for ages.
Tunnelcat wrote:I haven't seen you repudiate Nazism or White Supremacy in the strongest possible terms, yet you voted for a president who wore that moniker on his sleeve like a badge of honor and used it to unite a racist white male base just to win the presidency..
Do you really need to see me repudiate something that's so obviously evil a moron (except for Trump) could tell is...well...evil?

I voted against someone...not for someone. People did this during this last election or were you awake? :)
Tunnelcat wrote:You're a member of the Republican Party, which now seems to be the party of the xenophobes, white nationalists and Nazis.
I'm a conservative, not a republican. And no, they don't "seem" to be racists or anything else leftists want to slanderously tar and feather an entire party with simply because a loudmouthed moron that was a democrat all of 5 minutes ago became the nominee against every conservative's wishes for a candidate this last election.
Tunnelcat wrote:ever since LBJ's passing of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and then Nixon's Southern Strategy, it's been the Republicans who've embraced the Southern racists, all in order to get more votes and win. Republicans have been the ones dancing with the devil. Is your party now having a little bout of cognitive dissonance since they elected Trump?
About the "Southern Strategy" :


Tunnelcat wrote:The "intersectionalism" I was talking about in your other thread seems to have occurred in your own party and now they OWN it, not the liberals. Oh, and that's yet another topic you've seen fit to abandon because you've had no desire to discuss it.
They, in fact, do NOT "own" it. Who is re-segregating the universities? Communities? Political movements? I'm talking about today, not 50 years ago.

The reason there is a rise in visibility (NOT popularity) of white supremacists is that they see themselves as yet another identity group that is seeing an opportunity to say "HEY, ME TOO" at the clusterpluck of rising identity political movements.
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Re: Rejection of reality...

Post by callmeslick » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:25 am

the short answer is that the only thing re-segregating universities is the financial constraints on the poor.
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Re: Rejection of reality...

Post by Tunnelcat » Sat Aug 19, 2017 4:05 pm

Nightshade wrote:
Tunnelcat wrote:Why does it seem so important to YOU?
It's not. That's what I've been saying on this BB for ages.
Then why do you keep posting inflammatory stuff that reeks of anything anti-liberal? You rarely if at all post things that everyone here would consider valid topics to discuss in an intelligent manner. Every once in a while you do, kudos to you, but then you seem to refuse to continue the discussion. It's always postings to show everyone how bad or hypocritical those liberals are, without acknowledging some of the vile faults and hypocrisy in your own camp. Sometimes I think you post inflammatory anti-liberal stuff just to get a rise out of the lefties here, and rise they do, myself sometimes included. I DO acknowledge that liberalism has it's own big faults and sometimes I'll point them out or even vote against their platform in an election, but do you ever acknowledge the many faults of conservatism? Yes, they DO have them as well. Every political platform or ideal has it's uncomfortable or inconvenient truths that it's adherents don't like to have laid bare. Your perceptions and biases about liberals are just as invalid as those of many of the liberals have here have about conservatives. In fact, I tend to be fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Does that automatically make me a hated liberal because I'm a social liberal?
Nightshade wrote:
Tunnelcat wrote:I haven't seen you repudiate Nazism or White Supremacy in the strongest possible terms, yet you voted for a president who wore that moniker on his sleeve like a badge of honor and used it to unite a racist white male base just to win the presidency.
Do you really need to see me repudiate something that's so obviously evil a moron (except for Trump) could tell is...well...evil?

I voted against someone...not for someone. People did this during this last election or were you awake? :)
I voted against someone as well. I didn't vote for EITHER Trump or Clinton. Both were repugnant and even though I lean liberal, I'm a registered Independent. YOU yourself could have perhaps voted for a third party instead of voting for Trump, who was already using vile divisive rhetoric back during his campaign, giving all of us a taste of what he'd be like as president. In fact, it's even worse than I ever dreamed of and I could envision some pretty awful things. You had a clear indication of what type of president he would become and yet you still voted for him (at least that's what you've indicated before).
Nightshade wrote:
Tunnelcat wrote:You're a member of the Republican Party, which now seems to be the party of the xenophobes, white nationalists and Nazis.
I'm a conservative, not a republican. And no, they don't "seem" to be racists or anything else leftists want to slanderously tar and feather an entire party with simply because a loudmouthed moron that was a democrat all of 5 minutes ago became the nominee against every conservative's wishes for a candidate this last election.
Are you a registered Independent, or a Republican? If you're an independent, my apologies. Let me put it this way, racists and xenophobes tend to be conservative. Things or people that are different from them put them outside their comfort zone, so they resist change. As I've gotten older, I've also become a little more conservative. Change requires far more energy than I can possibly give. :wink:

As to your Southern Strategy rebuttal, it's only since the Dixiecrat movement (look it up) that the Southern Dems slowly over time moved themselves over to the Republican Party. Religion also played a role in that as well.

http://www.alternet.org/books/why-racis ... nservative

And I don't deny that at one time, the Democratic Party was the party of slavery and the Republican Party was the party of the abolitionists and that they've now reversed course to the point that they've become their own worst enemy.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/colu ... olumn.html
Nightshade wrote:
Tunnelcat wrote:ever since LBJ's passing of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and then Nixon's Southern Strategy, it's been the Republicans who've embraced the Southern racists, all in order to get more votes and win. Republicans have been the ones dancing with the devil. Is your party now having a little bout of cognitive dissonance since they elected Trump?
Another take on the revised Southern Strategy, Trump style:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... gy/495719/

GOP style from the perspective of a former Democratic Senator from Wisconsin (if I can find an enlightened Republican's view, I'll post it):

https://www.yahoo.com/news/republican-p ... 11327.html
Nightshade wrote:
Tunnelcat wrote:The "intersectionalism" I was talking about in your other thread seems to have occurred in your own party and now they OWN it, not the liberals. Oh, and that's yet another topic you've seen fit to abandon because you've had no desire to discuss it.
They, in fact, do NOT "own" it. Who is re-segregating the universities? Communities? Political movements? I'm talking about today, not 50 years ago.
Actually, Republicans DO own it, at least with the universities. They're the ones re-segregating them and they're doing it through wealth manipulation. They're the ones who hated the university intellectualism. They couldn't pull the wool over the eyes of smart people, so they strove to get rid of them. More stupid voters, more Republican voters. They're the ones who've been cutting state college funding ever since Reagan. It's now wealth inequity that's the issue and not necessarily race, although race does track with being in poverty. But the kicker is that now the poorer middle class white families can't afford it either. I went to college on an income from my summer jobs. No loans needed. Now, forget about graduating without a huge debt to "The Man", in other words, the young generation, black or white, are now slaves to the big banks and corporate America.
Nightshade wrote:The reason there is a rise in visibility (NOT popularity) of white supremacists is that they see themselves as yet another identity group that is seeing an opportunity to say "HEY, ME TOO" at the clusterpluck of rising identity political movements.
I have no doubt that "white America" sees itself under attack. They've been emasculated. With the loss of manufacturing jobs and the middle class, they have a right to be bitter and angry. What they DON'T have a right to be angry about is the freedoms given to formerly marginalized groups like women, non-whites, immigrants and homosexuals. Taking away someone's rights because you don't like the rise of their social status can't be undone without a big fight. The time has come to be equals in society and not be kings on a throne. I know that white men especially don't like being knocked off their thrones, but to align with Nazis, Fascists and White Supremacists is only going to make everyone else alienate them even more, because being a Nazi or White Supremacist is the most repugnant thing in the history of the world and it's a no-win strategy. It's certainly not going to garner sympathy.
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