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 Post subject: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:03 pm 
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When I first came back to the DBB to pimp the Retrovirus game, Merlin asked me if I had a stake in the game, and my honest reply was “no”. However, that has now changed, and I am here to declare my interest in the game is no longer simply as a player.

As of today, I have begun funding Retrovirus for the final three months of development, in order to achieve the team’s stated Kickstarter goals. My funding will permit the game editor and tools to be polished and released at the same time as the game. It is my hope that this simultaneous release will result in the game being more successful than it otherwise might be.

I have two motives for funding this development. First and quite importantly is to make a return on my investment, but equally and perhaps more importantly for me, is the opportunity to do what I can to perpetuate Descent-style gaming, and to try to actually DO something for the Descent community, past and present. The best and greatest fun I have ever had on the ‘Net was playing Descent 3, and I feel a strong sense of debt to the game, and the community which permitted and enhanced that strong sense of fun and enjoyment.

With these things in mind, I consider it very important the first true 6DOF game in 13 years (one heavily influenced by Descent) gets the best possible opportunity to do as well as it possibly can. I am delighted to be in a position where I can hopefully, make a difference.

My investment does not give me any right to dictate any aspect of the game or its content to the Cadenza team – something I am sure you will be extremely relieved to hear! I will see a couple of small perks though - I’ll be getting development builds of the game ahead of the public. :) Plus, Dylan mentioned something about my Agent being invulnerable online... ;)

I’ll report back here each time a new release is available, and I will continue to document the changes in the game over time. If you are not already aware, I am building and maintaining the official Retrovirus FAQ up at the Cadenza forums: http://cadenzainteractive.com/SolSurviv ... =15&t=1266

So, as a person who has a financial interest in the game, I think it’s important you all understand that I am not in any way un-biased on the issue, and it’s in the interests of openness and honesty I am declaring my involvement.

In the past I have severely bagged almost every attempt to build a new 6DOF game, and I think I even once stated it was impossible for any game company to make another truly 6DOF game, and promised to eat my hat if anyone managed the feat. I hope that you will forgive those mistaken assertions, and accept that my putting a large amount of my own money where my mouth is, adequately defines my dedication to 6DOF gaming and the Descent community.

It’s my most hopeful desire that what remains of the Descent community, and large numbers of old Descent players can and will enjoy Retrovirus, to the point where there’s more interest created for Descent itself, as well as a thriving new community developing around this new game. I suspect that community will largely be dominated, number wise, by traditional FPS players attracted to Retrovirus for its uniqueness in the market. In the best of all possible worlds these new players, along with the old Descent hardcore, will stick around for years, and play a wide range of mods, one of which, I am sure will be “Pure Descent”.

My feeling is that Retrovirus is the game which can achieve these pipe dreams, with its cutting edge engine, great visual effects, and superb new weapons – Retrovirus is sufficiently like Descent to make it very attractive, while the gameplay will go in new and challenging directions.

As a significant shareholder in the game, it is also my hope you will all tear off to Gamestop’s Impulse service, and pre-purchase the game (any day now!) at a discounted rate, and provide as much feedback as you can to the Cadenza team, as quickly as you can. This is your opportunity to really have an influence on the final game, as the development process is largely driven by feedback.

While feedback is very important to the team, I have come to understand they are very capable of taking problems and creating unique solutions to them.

The game will be released before Christmas this year.

Matt and Dylan at Cadenza have informed me that to modify the game so that it *IS* Descent will be very simple and straightforward using just the game tools, and a small amount of code. So, if you are still wedded to the idea of Pyros, Fusion cannon (or Gauss, or Megas, or Smarts, or whatever) then you can have it.

I hope some Descent-crazy gurus might actually achieve this, and keep the Descent dream alive for a few more years, yet. You never know; perhaps if Retrovirus is successful, it might prompt Interplay to commission Descent 4. Who knows? What I do know is that the future of 6DOF gaming looks much, much brighter than it did just a few months ago, and I am very proud and happy to be a part of it.

Cheers all!

Chris/Mobius

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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:10 pm 
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Excellent! :mrgreen:

It's awesome to finally see a company jumping firmly into the 6DoF genre... and going about their business the right way. Even better to see that it's well-backed by a longtime member of the Descent community. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:57 pm 
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Yep Foil, 13 years is long enough to wait I think, and Cadenza do seem to be doing everything right. so my decision was not a difficult one to make.

I've just learned Valin Halcyon is pushing forwards with the Material Defender project on the Unreal engine. I do hope he can be persuaded to switch to Retrovirus, as I believe this would be a better option for him. Getting Retrovirus *AND* a new Descent game in the bargain would be a huge boost for the community, and I really really (really!) hope Valin is successful in his goal.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:48 pm 
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Well, from everything I've heard about Valin I think he's pretty competent at what he's doing -- of everyone in this community I think he'd be the one who would succeed.
Anyway, I like the idea of getting Material Defender, Miner Wars, Retrovirus, AND a Descent mod for Retrovirus -- four "Descent" games in a fraction of the time it took Interplay to publish three. And I honestly think Interplay will go down for good in a few more years -- they're too proud to realize what they need and what they can't afford to do. Maybe someone should show them a Dilbert comic :P. Or a book of Dilbert comics. They've been lucky but even if they keep being lucky it eventually won't be enough.

I have to admit, Mobius, when I faced you in D3 a few years ago, you sort of creeped me out. It's good to know you're not actually like that.
I just want to say, though, that you are being a little bit... how do I say it? Single-mindedly excited. Yes, Retrovirus excited me more than any of the other Descent-like projects in the last few years but... those other projects did excite me too. And they're still exciting me. Valin's project is exciting for what it is, and like I said, if there's anyone in this community who I think knows what he's doing with projects like this, it's him. I don't think changing what he's doing, when he's this far along, will help his project at all. More likely to hinder it in my perfectly honest opinion. The thing is, the way you're talking about it it sounds too good to be true. And you know what they say about things that sound too good to be true.

Some words of caution. Don't put all your eggs in one basket because, if the basket is dropped, all your eggs will break.
To say it plainly, there's simply no way to meet your expectations when your expectations are this high. And time is not infinite, at least not for people who need to make a living.

_________________
The eyes of the plush lobster stared deep into my soul. I touched it, made as if to pick it up, and then I was a panther.
BEWARE RAZZADOON'S SNOUT!!
...

Also beware my original music, at http://soundcloud.com/snowfoxden and http://vertigofox.bandcamp.com


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:36 pm 
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Relax! Mobius may be a crazy Aussie, but just because he's jumping with both feet doesn't mean he's jumping with his eyes closed. Glad to hear you've got a stake in it, Mobius. They couldn't have chosen a more exuberant partner. ;) Looking forward to a Retrovirus reference as good as your D3Help project.

I have to say I still don't totally like the idea of a pre-purchase. 30 days is one thing, but 4 months... I don't mind throwing my money at a 6DOF project, even in a "give me another Descent!" lottery-ticket style, but it just puts a project in a bad light, in my eyes, when payment is requested so far before completion. Not a good plan, IMO. Nothing against these guys, who seem to be a great bunch. Best case scenario they're just a lot better at developing than they are at business. I've been playing their first game, "Sol Survivor", lately and having a lot of fun with it. We'll see. One way or the other I'm going to end up with at least one copy of Retrovirus (if it'll run on my system). Count on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:48 pm 
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Just another thought, for the future. These guys are working their butts off and coming up with some great stuff. They're also learning a lot from interacting with folks like Mobius who have a seasoned perspective on 6DOF gameplay. Image the position they'll be in for their next release, should they decide to continue to pursue the 6DOF genre. :) Even more-so if they manage to cultivate a thriving modding community.

Hey Interplay! .!.. ..!. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:08 pm 
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Well I stand by what I said about Interplay. They have... problems. I wouldn't trust them with anything right now. That's not to say I'd never ask them to do anything -- just not anything important.

I have a plan... well some might even call it an exploitation because it's easy, but it's not, because there's as much in it for them as there is for me, and a hell of a lot more risk for me. You'll see in a couple years...

Anyway, I'm glad you've invested Mobius. And I hope you're right about the laptops thing because they've actually said otherwise in their FAQ. Which, if I'm not mistaken, you posted on their forum. I'm not accusing you of anything, since I'm pretty sure you've actually been in contact with them; and time exists and is limited, especially for posting such mundane things as FAQs which are, deliciously, often innaccurate. I'm just in love with the flavour of irony and I have to share it whenever I can. It's a fox thing.

_________________
The eyes of the plush lobster stared deep into my soul. I touched it, made as if to pick it up, and then I was a panther.
BEWARE RAZZADOON'S SNOUT!!
...

Also beware my original music, at http://soundcloud.com/snowfoxden and http://vertigofox.bandcamp.com


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:49 pm 
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Well this is unexpected, but certainly welcome. :) I'm glad to hear how much enthusiasm you have for the project. Even from where I'm sitting, this seems by far the closest we've ever been to a Descent spiritual successor...I mean, I've even had the chance to play it with my own two hands. I'm very much looking forward to how the finished product will turn out. I don't know that I'd want to deal with some unfamiliar (to me) digital-distribution service just for the sake of pre-ordering, but if you can get the game on Steam and/or release it directly through the site, I'd be all over it.

A new 6DOF game in December of 2012? Maybe the Mayans were right. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:29 pm 
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Alter-Fox: Heh - my investment IS diversifying my interests, because up until now I have had all my eggs in one basket. That basket made better than 1600% return in the last 2 years, and continues to go ballistic. (Hot stock tip: DIL on the NZX exchange. A bargain at $3.80 something, as the price is heading north of $7. You can buy these shares via a US broker, as the company is Delaware-listed. This was the company I worked at for 9 years, 364 days, and quit from, back in January.)

My intention with bringing up Valin's project is simply to give him an option he hasn't had before, and I am certain he would get quite a bit of support from Cadenza if he decided to go that way. Personally, I don't care where a new Descent game comes from, but if it fits into the "natural order" using the XNA engine in Retrovirus, at significantly less effort than completing an Unreal engine effort - then he at least needs that option available to him. I'm aware of how hard it is to include Joystick support and all the 6DOF hackery needed to get the Unreal engine to play Descent-ball: all that work is done and dusted in the RV engine.

I know Valin is highly competent, and I wish him the very best luck! I know I will burst a blood vessel the first time I can unleash a fully charged Fusion blast from a hi-Poly Pyro, in ANY modern game engine.

I'm in New Zealand, Thorne - but you got pretty close. :)

As to the pre-orders: you will be saving money on the retail price. Think of it as a way to contribute something to the development costs, as well as being able to provide feedback on all the features before the game goes gold. All the while playing a cool game! You'll get a monthly update for free, as well as a key to download the final game from Steam, too.

I am not funding the entire amount the team asked for in the Kickstarter - and to achieve their goals, Cadenza require some additional funding, and that's what the pre-release sales are about. You aren't being expected to hand over your cash and wait: you can DL the very latest build the minute you sign up. I can tell you that the Racing Challenge alone is worth the price of admission. In the latest Alpha build the "Agent" (ship) feels much stronger and more powerful - and if you have watched the stream I linked to in a post yesterday, then you have seen the "LUDICROUS SPEED" capabilities within the racing level. Woohoo!

The stream also shows some "Perks" which can be acquired in the game - including the "Double Tap" shotgun upgrade which allows you to fire twice for the energy expenditure of one shot. Given you can scan the residue of a shotgun blast to create a really lovely looking gravity well, which sucks everything into it, AND bends the level geometry too - I think the Perk system is going to dramatically improve the online gameplay, by adding a metric Focktun of complexity.

Yes Alter-Fox, I am extremely Gung-Ho about Retrovirus. If you knew me well, you'd know I tend to go over the top when I am excited about something. As I age that tendency has somewhat diminished, but at age 47, I find myself feeling like I did after I made my Descent 3 Pre-purchase a few months before it came out. I never thought I'd have that feeling about a PC game ever again.

Yes, indeed, I intend to build a "Retrovirus Help" web site once the game comes out. I'll start with the FAQ, and build it up from there. It's necessary to understand that the subtle implications of the Retrovirus game rules and behaviours may take months to emerge, as conventional wisdom is accumulated by the community - so, once again, I will be bugging the top players for their wisdom.

It's also my intention to start up a "6DOF Flight School" for newbie pilots which will meet twice a week online (at least) once the game is out. I consider it very important that right from the outset, there is a way for 6DOF newbies to be trained up, rather than simply leave them as cannon fodder for you lot, who will undoubtedly take to RV like a duck to water, and consequently, there'll be a trail of utter destruction in your wake.

If any of you recall, I did a little of this with Team [NUB] way back when - but of course D3 was in its death throes, even back then.

If even a small percentage of traditional FPS players can be coaxed over to 6DOF, and if a new generation of players can be persuaded to stick around long enough to develop some skills, then I think the future of 6DOF gaming is assured.

Yes, Interplay do appear to be a bunch of fools - but they have already announced that Descent is on their list of games to develop again (along with MDK). I'm not holding my breath mind you - but if I were the marketing manager at Interplay, I would be watching what happens to RV with much interest, and if it is successful, I'd be pitching a cheap-and-cheerful, online-only Descent 4 to try and wring some money out of the franchise. Meh - it won't happen, we know. But a man can dream, can't he?

I would have to get permission from the team at Cadenza before I reveal what their intentions are after Retrovirus, as I am unsure if this is information they want public.

Laptop compatibility is pretty low on their list I think Alter-Fox, and I guess you aren't in a position to "just go and buy a decent desktop". That's a shame. But the game won't go away, and if you start saving pennies, I am sure you can afford to build a budget gaming machine not too far in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:40 pm 
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Top Gun wrote:
...I don't know that I'd want to deal with some unfamiliar (to me) digital-distribution service just for the sake of pre-ordering...


I never could understand any hesitancy in handing over money online. Are you wary of going to a new restaurant because you haven't been there before? Hell, I dish out money to anyone who's got something I want online. Just go buy it. Take the plunge.

This isn't a pre-order. When you buy, you download. It's a discounted early-purchase program. The discount will only remain in place while Impulse is distributing the alpha and Beta versions. If you leave it until release date, you'll pay full retail. Not sure if I should reveal the retail price yet, but suffice it to say that for the price of the game, you couldn't even get a semi-decent pizza and a coke. To go.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:42 pm 
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Unfortunately, as the trademarks and specific copyrights to Descent 4 expired or were otherwise declared invalid, I picked them up and they are in the registration process, something that can take some time. I can't make Descent 4 on them alone, but neither can someone else.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:57 pm 
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It's not that I don't trust Impulse as a legitimate service or anything...it's more that I can't be assed to create a new account on yet another service just to buy a single title. I mean, I already have a metric fuck-ton of games on my Steam account, plus a steadily-growing pile on GOG.com. For the sake of convenience, I'll be fine paying full retail price. :P

(It doesn't help that GameStop owns Impulse now, and they're pretty much the scrotum of game retailers.)


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:03 pm 
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Mobius wrote:
Laptop compatibility is pretty low on their list I think Alter-Fox, and I guess you aren't in a position to "just go and buy a decent desktop". That's a shame. But the game won't go away, and if you start saving pennies, I am sure you can afford to build a budget gaming machine not too far in the future.


Or just keep playing Descent :P.
And I am saving, to take a trip to the Czech Republic so I can see my heritage (or at least half of it :D) -- this is why I'm not buying games I can't play yet (normally I stockpile them as incentives -- it feels a lot better than just buying them once I can play XD). Maybe if I keep bugging Cadenza they'll release a patch for laptops later on. They seem reasonable moreso than a lot of other companies, and I know I'm not the only gamer who's started to swear by laptops. And I am working in the game industry, maybe I would be able to give them more than just money in return for a simple patch as well ;). Of course that plan would kind of involve them giving me money...

I'm always an optimist. It makes life so much better.

_________________
The eyes of the plush lobster stared deep into my soul. I touched it, made as if to pick it up, and then I was a panther.
BEWARE RAZZADOON'S SNOUT!!
...

Also beware my original music, at http://soundcloud.com/snowfoxden and http://vertigofox.bandcamp.com


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:25 pm 
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Alter-Fox wrote:
I'm always an optimist. It makes life so much better.


I feel exactly the same way. Which is why I am doing this!


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:19 am 
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It sounds like Cadenza is shying away from promising anything on laptops not simply based on the fact that they're laptops, but more on that the majority of laptops have fairly-crappy integrated video that chokes and dies on almost any game made within the past ten years. If your own model has a decent CPU and a discrete video card, you might not even have to worry.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:59 am 
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That's true -- and I wouldn't be much of a gamer if my only computer had one of those, and that's why I'll be deciding based on the last alpha, and not any confusing statements people make. And it also depends on whether I'm a finalist in the... thing I can't tell you yet.
And if not, well, I know what's more important to me.
And I used to get excited the way you do Mobius -- I still do. But the last time I got excited like that without having some reservations, it ruined my life for a year. Because it took a year to get over myself. And I wouldn't want that to happen to anyone else.

And now I'm going to stop monopolizing this thread so you guys can actually talk about the game.

_________________
The eyes of the plush lobster stared deep into my soul. I touched it, made as if to pick it up, and then I was a panther.
BEWARE RAZZADOON'S SNOUT!!
...

Also beware my original music, at http://soundcloud.com/snowfoxden and http://vertigofox.bandcamp.com


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:17 pm 
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"Laptop compatibility" is a non-issue - as long as it's powerful enough to play games, there's no reason for this one in particular to be a problem. You might want something other than a built-in trackpad for best results though (unless you're a keyboarder - they do exist).


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 4:30 pm 
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I have a mouse... how do you think I play Descent without a joystick? And I have a giant mousepad...

But I'm trying to bring this conversation back to topic. Only I don't know what to say that would be on topic.

_________________
The eyes of the plush lobster stared deep into my soul. I touched it, made as if to pick it up, and then I was a panther.
BEWARE RAZZADOON'S SNOUT!!
...

Also beware my original music, at http://soundcloud.com/snowfoxden and http://vertigofox.bandcamp.com


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:39 pm 
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<< Keyboarder for 18 years... Tried jstick once, didn't like it.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:36 am 
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Valin Halcyon wrote:
<< Keyboarder for 18 years... Tried jstick once, didn't like it.


Hard core man! Hard core!

Hey Valin I had a chat with Spencer at Cadenza, and they'd love to talk to you, any time. I know it's highly unlikely you'll switch from Unreal, but hey...

More good news: The new Alpha has joystick support built in, but the build I have has a small bug where the HAT switches can't be bound to anything. That'll be fixed before the Gamestop/Impulse Alpha is released. My few minutes of testing show the Agent has gained speed, and a big power increase due to a major change to the acceleration on each sliding axis.

It is really starting to handle like a Pyro! Controls are really sensitive, but that's fine, it can be dialed back a bit in the joystick settings.

Roll on December!


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:46 am 
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If they want to talk to me, they know how to reach me.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:37 pm 
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Valin Halcyon wrote:
<< Keyboarder for 18 years... Tried jstick once, didn't like it.


2x here. Been using that setup since the first Descent.

A - Forward
Z - Backwards
S - Afterburner
F - Flare
Left Ctrl - Primary fire
Space Bar - Secondary Fire
Enter - Drop bomb

Up arrow key - Pitch Forward
Down arrow key - Pitch Backward
Left arrow key - Turn Left
Right arrow key - Turn Right

Delete - Slide Left
End - Slide Right
Page Up - Slide Up
Page Down - Slide Down

Bank Left - Pad 7 Key
Bank Right - Pad 8 Key


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:57 pm 
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LShift - Forward
Pad 0 - Backwards
A - Afterburner
D - Flare
LAlt- Primary fire
Space Bar - Secondary Fire
X - Drop bomb
S - Rear View

Pad 8 - Pitch Forward
Pad 2 - Pitch Backward
Pad 4 - Turn Left
Pad 6 - Turn Right

Pad 1 - Slide Left
Pad 3 - Slide Right
Pad + - Slide Up
Pad Enter - Slide Down

Pad 7 - Bank Left
Pad 9 - Bank Right

Also, remember to have numlock OFF, or you reduce the number of keys you can have pressed at the same time on most modern KBs.

I've been using this layout since late 96...granted, I now use a keyboard very different from the one I used to use, but I still use the same config.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:03 pm 
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Either one of you had better be able to play Beethoven 's 5th in your sleep at high tempo or you're cannon fodder and that's all there is to it. ;) Now get back on topic before I load up my game and fly circles around your stubborn personages. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:11 pm 
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There were joystick+keyboard players I was never able to clearly defeat, and there were mouse+keyboard players that I was never able to clearly defeat. But there was never a keyboard only player that I couldn't clearly defeat, and I used a joystick+keyboard combo myself. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:05 pm 
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Yeah, I see how it would work for singleplayer even on Insane (or whatever retrovirus's highest difficulty is) but the sorts of strategies it encourages wouldn't be competitive for multiplayer.

And as for Descent's default controls, well, 'useless' is a charitable description. Whoever came up with it forgot we only have five fingers on each hand. I'm glad Retrovirus has better default bindings... especially at the point where you can't change them yet.
I'm honestly surprised so many 90s and early 2000s games that included flying modes used A and Z for forwards and reverse (or more commonly accelleration and decelleration) after the first game to use them proved that they didn't work at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:26 am 
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I think for multiplayer (except co-op) you really need sliding and turning controls on different hands unless you have a hat switch - it'll start holding you back otherwise. You can do that on keyboard the same as mouse or joystick - you'll just have a slightly different dynamic with aiming.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:29 am 
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I used joystick-only for a while with my 3D Pro, but the throttle is sticky enough that it's a royal pain to switch between forward and reverse, so if/when I play again, I think I'll have to get used to that left hand on the keyboard.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:06 pm 
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As long as it works with my setup (N52te + 3DPro), I'm in on the next alpha! :D

Image + Image

N52te connects as a simple HID, and pretty much acts like a keyboard (all its key-mapping is done onboard), so I assume it should work fine once joystick support is up.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:26 pm 
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Well, I am flying around the maps using the Joystick! A small bug means I had to map keys to the HAT to get sliding to work, but that will be fixed before the Alpha 0.2 release.

It's worth noting that the Joystick support is Alpha too, which means it merely replaces the mouse, and thus your turning rate can get extremely high indeed unless you dial the sensitivity back pretty hard. Without the "Boost" being engaged, the ship is feeling very good indeed, albeit without trichording yet. Even this is VERY exciting, as it's now possible to get an actual feeling for the way the Agent behaves based on our classic understanding via the JS.

Boosting seems to behave strangely ATM, with it being possible to boost along any axis at all, and sliding while boosting has a strange effect, killing forward speed, and boosting along that axis. I have asked the team whether this is a feature or a bug!

One thing using the joystick demonstrates to me very strongly is how extremely hard it is to aim with a joystick compared to the mouse, even with low sensitivity. Even though I can navigate much better using the JS, and I am total crap with the mouse, I can still aim better with a mouse! Makes me think that it's worthwhile expending more energy trying to find a left-hand controller which has a HAT switch available to control sliding. It's one thing to be able to dodge, but entirely another to target an enemy who only occupies 20 pixels or so on screen.

Foil - the thumb-button on the N52te a HAT switch - is it responsive enough to use for sliding? I see that the specs say the HAT switch comes with a "joystick". Is that the flat circle poked into the HAT? This looks like it could be a very nice LH controller with a mouse.

I have established that the 3D controller "SpaceNavigator" is totally useless as a left-hand controller. In the garage is still an old N25(?) the original Belkin thing, and it had a HAT, but it wasn't fast enough to use in D3 or in FPS games in general.

What would be very valuable perhaps, is a mouse with a proper HAT switch on it for thumb use. I have seen a few models out there, but they all look like shit, and they appear to be designed for occasional use, and not heavy combat.

Have you seen the Cadenza site today? Some stunning pics up at http://cadenzainteractive.com/retroviru ... rovements/

I have two old MS 3D Pro sticks Foil: one brand new one, and one slightly older. But I much prefer the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro. Does anyone need an old MS stick? I was always too jewish to throw them away. Hell, I still have an old, modded Precision Pro too.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:16 pm 
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I'm a bit bummed on the lack of OpenGL (and consequently, Linux) support (which the game "looks" like it could support), but given their budget and other priorities, can see why. Other than that, they have done an excellent job so far it looks and of the handful of projects on the way it's this first and "Material Defender" second I'm looking forward to. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:25 am 
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Much love for this community. We're all ears, whenever you guys have something to offer.

If anyone's going to be at PAX or PAX Dev, we'll be around. Find us! Best via twitter, @cadenzagames.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:43 am 
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You exhibiting? I'll keep a look out...


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:43 pm 
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They made a presentation at 3:45 yesterday, about their experiences developing two separate custom game engines for their two titles. A couple of tweets have emerged, the latest one says "...the tools being used to build Retrovirus are awesome. Kudos to the team."

I imagine this bodes well for a Pure Descent-Mod built in Retrovirus.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:14 am 
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Couldn't find them yesterday, might have something to do with GameStop though? Exhibition area is pretty big so it's possible I missed something.


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 2:25 pm 
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Most exhibit complexes have a map... :P Get on the ball, Sirius! We require booth interview vids. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2012 1:11 am 
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Yeah, there is a map for PAX, but Cadenza is nowhere to be found on it. I'm 99% sure they don't have a booth - pretty much checked every corner of the expo halls by now. GameStop doesn't have a booth either (also not on the exhibitor list and I couldn't find them just walking about either).


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 Post subject: Re: Retrovirus: putting my money where my mouth is
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:07 pm 
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You are probably right: I think the main point of attending was to give their presentation about the experience of developing from scratch, two totally different gaming engines. To my mind, this is one of the most compelling things about Retrovirus: not having the exact same look as 15 other shooters out there.

From my understanding, the presentation was very well received. That such a small outfit can roll their own engine, and get a game out the door at such a low level of overall investment is great testament to the skills of the team.


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