Time to axe this forum.
- Mobius
- DBB_Master
- Posts: 7940
- Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:01 am
- Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
- Contact:
Time to axe this forum.
With Outrage not even interested in replying to requests about the 1.5 patch - and with no interest whatsoever in developing any other Descent games, it's time to put this dog down once and for all.
Kill it.
*sigh*
Kill it.
*sigh*
- Vindicator
- DBB Benefactor
- Posts: 3166
- Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 3:01 am
- Location: southern IL, USA
- Contact:
-
- DBB Friend
- Posts: 413
- Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
- Location: Boise, ID, USA
- Contact:
Hey, I still come here occasionally!
As a matter of fact, I was playing D3 on PXO last night. My son (who was born after we finished D3) is now a D3 addict, and wants to play all the time. I'm having to set him up with a faster computer so we can play together.
Anyway, thought about 1.5 aren't lost. I'm working on it....standby!
As a matter of fact, I was playing D3 on PXO last night. My son (who was born after we finished D3) is now a D3 addict, and wants to play all the time. I'm having to set him up with a faster computer so we can play together.
Anyway, thought about 1.5 aren't lost. I'm working on it....standby!
- DarkShadow
- DBB Admiral
- Posts: 1371
- Joined: Thu Apr 29, 1999 2:01 am
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="3">Originally posted by Kevin Bentley:
<b> Hey, I still come here occasionally!
As a matter of fact, I was playing D3 on PXO last night. My son (who was born after we finished D3) is now a D3 addict, and wants to play all the time. I'm having to set him up with a faster computer so we can play together.
Anyway, thought about 1.5 aren't lost. I'm working on it....standby!</b></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wow and we thought no one invloved with the game came here at all anymore.![Image](http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/smile.gif)
Cool
I wish I my son could do that. If my son didn't have Autism I would teach him to play too but he's too hyper to sit that long. ![Image](http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/frown.gif)
YAY so 1.5 may come out yet. Somehow I knew if anyone was gonna finish it it would end up being you.![Image](http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/smile.gif)
<b> Hey, I still come here occasionally!
As a matter of fact, I was playing D3 on PXO last night. My son (who was born after we finished D3) is now a D3 addict, and wants to play all the time. I'm having to set him up with a faster computer so we can play together.
Anyway, thought about 1.5 aren't lost. I'm working on it....standby!</b></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Wow and we thought no one invloved with the game came here at all anymore.
![Image](http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/smile.gif)
Cool
![Image](http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/smile.gif)
![Image](http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/frown.gif)
YAY so 1.5 may come out yet. Somehow I knew if anyone was gonna finish it it would end up being you.
![Image](http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/smile.gif)
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="3">Originally posted by Kevin Bentley:
<b> My son (who was born after we finished D3) is now a D3 addict, and wants to play all the time. I'm having to set him up with a faster computer so we can play together.
Anyway, thought about 1.5 aren't lost. I'm working on it....standby!</b></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks for the heads up Kevin ! It would really come handy for shaking the cheaters out the games
If you want to let your son loose online, we ([NuB]) are running "safe" games for our youngest member (she's 7 IIRC) regulary -- if interested, check w/ Deadmeat, Red Barchetta or me in PXO.
<b> My son (who was born after we finished D3) is now a D3 addict, and wants to play all the time. I'm having to set him up with a faster computer so we can play together.
Anyway, thought about 1.5 aren't lost. I'm working on it....standby!</b></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks for the heads up Kevin ! It would really come handy for shaking the cheaters out the games
![Image](http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/smile.gif)
- CDN_Merlin
- DBB_Master
- Posts: 9750
- Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
- Location: Capital Of Canada
Well, this is great to hear. =) However, I heard from one of the beta testers that 1.5 doesn't completely stamp out cheating. I heard that it only prevents "a simple table file hack." There are some people who use other methods to cheat.
It's also great to hear from you, Kevin. It's also nice to hear that you still play and pass it on to your son and what not. =) It was sad not having you in chat shortly before November 1st and afterward and even now.
It's also great to hear from you, Kevin. It's also nice to hear that you still play and pass it on to your son and what not. =) It was sad not having you in chat shortly before November 1st and afterward and even now.
You're never going to stop the cheating. Some loser will sit behind a computer for hours and figure a way around it. That's just the way some people are. Deprived of the finer things in life, their thrill is to ruin things for others. Maybe they were dropped as babies or something.
The question is, once we get version 1.5, which we might as well assume would be the last, what defense will we have when the cheaters come to ruin that?![Image](http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/nosmile.gif)
(Hi, Kevin! ^-^)
The question is, once we get version 1.5, which we might as well assume would be the last, what defense will we have when the cheaters come to ruin that?
![Image](http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/nosmile.gif)
(Hi, Kevin! ^-^)
- CDN_WingMan
- DBB Alumni
- Posts: 2448
- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 1999 2:01 am
- Location: CANADA!!!!!!!
- Contact:
Wow, good old Kevin.
There was a Kevin from outrage at Califest 1, was that you? if so Hi again![Image](http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/smile.gif)
As for cheating, its almost impossible to stamp it out totally, but some games have an awesome setup, like return to castle wolfenstein, where they have punkbuster built in. This client side code is updated all the time, as new cheats are found.
I mainly play Americas Army these days and that game is full of hacks compared to D3, the Outrage guys actually did a pretty good job on D3's code to reduce hacking.
There was a Kevin from outrage at Califest 1, was that you? if so Hi again
![Image](http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/smile.gif)
As for cheating, its almost impossible to stamp it out totally, but some games have an awesome setup, like return to castle wolfenstein, where they have punkbuster built in. This client side code is updated all the time, as new cheats are found.
I mainly play Americas Army these days and that game is full of hacks compared to D3, the Outrage guys actually did a pretty good job on D3's code to reduce hacking.
Kevin, so good of you to let us know the 1.5 patch is not a dead horse. And I must agree, there is no way to stop real cheaters, but at least the 1.5 patch will stop the "kiddies" from altering game table files.
And Kevin, to echo Grendel, Team [NuB] would be very happy to have your son play with us. It's part of our mission to provide a "safe" environment for new players.
Again, thanx for the update.
And Kevin, to echo Grendel, Team [NuB] would be very happy to have your son play with us. It's part of our mission to provide a "safe" environment for new players.
Again, thanx for the update.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="3">Originally posted by Vertigo 5:
However, I heard from one of the beta testers that 1.5 doesn't completely stamp out cheating. I heard that it only prevents "a simple table file hack."</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know. Since CF I've a pretty good idea what the ships can do but I see better performance all the time online -- I think
. It's really hard to spot or even proof a well done fine tuning of the table files (eg. homing vauss, toughter shields, faster sliding, better acceleration etc.) and it's too easy to do. So having 1.5 should at least weed out this kind of cheating and I know I'd more enjoy playing pickup games.
However, I heard from one of the beta testers that 1.5 doesn't completely stamp out cheating. I heard that it only prevents "a simple table file hack."</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I know. Since CF I've a pretty good idea what the ships can do but I see better performance all the time online -- I think
![Image](http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/wink.gif)
- SuperSheep
- DBB Benefactor
- Posts: 935
- Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:01 am
- Location: Illinois
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="3">Originally posted by [Grendel]:
<b> [QUOTE]Originally posted by Vertigo 5:
It's really hard to spot or even proof a well done fine tuning of the table files (eg. homing vauss, toughter shields, faster sliding, better acceleration etc.) and it's too easy to do. So having 1.5 should at least weed out this kind of cheating and I know I'd more enjoy playing pickup games.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Homing vauss...not possible.
Tougher shields...One could give themselves shields but this is not controlled in the table file.
And I really must go on record to say that the whole myth of dropping packets is just that...a myth.
Damage packets are sent out reliably. This means that if they do not reach their destination, they will be resent until they do. You can simply not escape damage packets. So...the term dropping packets used currently as a accusation to the person who you think should be dying, is actually a problem server side or on your end, i.e., you're not sending the weapon fire or the server is fubared. The client can not escape damage packets once they are sent.
<b> [QUOTE]Originally posted by Vertigo 5:
It's really hard to spot or even proof a well done fine tuning of the table files (eg. homing vauss, toughter shields, faster sliding, better acceleration etc.) and it's too easy to do. So having 1.5 should at least weed out this kind of cheating and I know I'd more enjoy playing pickup games.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Homing vauss...not possible.
Tougher shields...One could give themselves shields but this is not controlled in the table file.
And I really must go on record to say that the whole myth of dropping packets is just that...a myth.
Damage packets are sent out reliably. This means that if they do not reach their destination, they will be resent until they do. You can simply not escape damage packets. So...the term dropping packets used currently as a accusation to the person who you think should be dying, is actually a problem server side or on your end, i.e., you're not sending the weapon fire or the server is fubared. The client can not escape damage packets once they are sent.
- Mr. Perfect
- DBB Fleet Admiral
- Posts: 2817
- Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2000 2:01 am
- Location: Cape May Court House, New Jersey.
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="3">Originally posted by SuperSheep:
<b> Homing vauss...not possible.
Tougher shields...One could give themselves shields but this is not controlled in the table file.</b></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Weapon:Vauss
silent homing, check.
Ship: Pyro-GL:Armor scalar, decrease from 1. to .87 to have tank shield.
<b> Homing vauss...not possible.
Tougher shields...One could give themselves shields but this is not controlled in the table file.</b></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Weapon:Vauss
Ship: Pyro-GL:Armor scalar, decrease from 1. to .87 to have tank shield.
- STRESSTEST
- DBB DemiGod
- Posts: 6574
- Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 3:01 am
- Mobius
- DBB_Master
- Posts: 7940
- Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:01 am
- Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
- Contact:
Supersheep, I think you're seeing the "packet dropping" issue from the wrong side of the fence.
Simply put, dropping packets is YOUR upstream loss, not anything on the server. You are skipping about the place because ship position packets are NOT reliable....
So player A fires at Player B (The lossy client). The fusion blob of Player A travels towards Player B, and under normal circumstances would hit Player B squarely on the side - killing them.
However, Player B is lossy, and D3 doesn't interpolate ship positions between packets... so Player B drops 2 position packets, and travels from one safe side of the fusion shot, to the other, with the fusion passing harmlessly between his positions.
THAT'S "dropping packets".
As far as delayed damage - yes, you can take damage a LONG time after being hit: I seem to recall my modem playing days, sometimes getting damage packets up to 3-4 seconds after being "hit". So it does seem unlikely you can escape a damage packet - although the server isn't stupid - if an ACK isn't recieved after several tries - eventually it will give up trying to send the damage packet. Who knows how long it takes though? And if a connection is THAT flakey, D3 is gonna be sucking royally anyway.
=================================================================
As to 1.5: I wouldn't hold my breath. One guy saying he's working on it does NOT a patch release, mean! No insult intended to Kevin, but we have had MULTIPLE promises and assurances from Outrage employees regarding the release of 1.5.
We understand there's no official support for the 1.5 patch, and that employees have been working on it in their spare time in the past.
Personally, I'd bet good money the 1.5 patch is dead, or at least won't see the light of day until D3 is 5 years old. By which time, D3 *REALLY* will be dead.
Simply put, dropping packets is YOUR upstream loss, not anything on the server. You are skipping about the place because ship position packets are NOT reliable....
So player A fires at Player B (The lossy client). The fusion blob of Player A travels towards Player B, and under normal circumstances would hit Player B squarely on the side - killing them.
However, Player B is lossy, and D3 doesn't interpolate ship positions between packets... so Player B drops 2 position packets, and travels from one safe side of the fusion shot, to the other, with the fusion passing harmlessly between his positions.
THAT'S "dropping packets".
As far as delayed damage - yes, you can take damage a LONG time after being hit: I seem to recall my modem playing days, sometimes getting damage packets up to 3-4 seconds after being "hit". So it does seem unlikely you can escape a damage packet - although the server isn't stupid - if an ACK isn't recieved after several tries - eventually it will give up trying to send the damage packet. Who knows how long it takes though? And if a connection is THAT flakey, D3 is gonna be sucking royally anyway.
=================================================================
As to 1.5: I wouldn't hold my breath. One guy saying he's working on it does NOT a patch release, mean! No insult intended to Kevin, but we have had MULTIPLE promises and assurances from Outrage employees regarding the release of 1.5.
We understand there's no official support for the 1.5 patch, and that employees have been working on it in their spare time in the past.
Personally, I'd bet good money the 1.5 patch is dead, or at least won't see the light of day until D3 is 5 years old. By which time, D3 *REALLY* will be dead.
-
- DBB Friend
- Posts: 413
- Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
- Location: Boise, ID, USA
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="3">Originally posted by Kevin Bentley:
I have all the D3 source still, and I could release patches all the time, as long as I have permission from the copyright holder...</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just make sure you store backup copies in at least 2 different locations -- one never knows, maybe someday the (c) holders will decide to release the src... Don't flame me, I like optimistic thinking![Image](http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/smile.gif)
I have all the D3 source still, and I could release patches all the time, as long as I have permission from the copyright holder...</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just make sure you store backup copies in at least 2 different locations -- one never knows, maybe someday the (c) holders will decide to release the src... Don't flame me, I like optimistic thinking
![Image](http://www.descentbb.net/ubb/smile.gif)
- Mr. Perfect
- DBB Fleet Admiral
- Posts: 2817
- Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2000 2:01 am
- Location: Cape May Court House, New Jersey.
- Contact:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="3">Originally posted by Pugwash:
My understanding was that the release of 1.5 was being held up by the MAC version not being completed (or maybe not started??).</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep, this was what I was also thinking. I definitely hope that if it ever comes out, it's not only for the Windows version. Well, even that would be better than no patch... I guess. Maybe.
In any case, it's very cool to see this news, Kevin! More power to you!
My understanding was that the release of 1.5 was being held up by the MAC version not being completed (or maybe not started??).</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep, this was what I was also thinking. I definitely hope that if it ever comes out, it's not only for the Windows version. Well, even that would be better than no patch... I guess. Maybe.
In any case, it's very cool to see this news, Kevin! More power to you!
- Mr. Perfect
- DBB Fleet Admiral
- Posts: 2817
- Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2000 2:01 am
- Location: Cape May Court House, New Jersey.
- Contact:
Parallax owns the rights to Descent. The compandy still exists in name only(owned by the two founders). Yes, the Parallax employees split into Outrage and Volition, but Parallax still owns the copyrights. Interplay owns the publishing rights. Orbital had to cut through all this BS when they tried to get authorization to do D4.