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 Post subject: Visual programming languages. ie: Max/MSP
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:35 pm 
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[youtube]9UWCQi5rmfM[/youtube]

Everytime i see some of this great Max/MSP stuff i get super curious about visual programming languages all over again.

Ok, so recently i figured i'd try to get back into programming, maybe launch back into C++ again after years of no activity (maybe even some C#, i dunno!), but now i'm wondering if i should play around something visual like this instead. Coz it looks so friendly and intuitive. I mean look at it! LOOK AT IT!
I've had some experience with some simple visual programming before i guess, but it was almost a decade ago see http://www.zzz.com.ru/index.php?area=is ... sue_no=179
Image


Soooooooo

Does everyone just use Max/MSP, or is there something better and/or newer i should start with instead?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:V ... _languages
I guess i could use this as a list but it's not rated by popularity or functionality or anything. Can you guys narrow it down for me? What's good?
I guess the only reason i'm shying away from Max/MSP is coz it seems to be mostly just used for live artistic performances, and that gives me the impression that it's probably not very powerful, otherwise i'd probably have seen something useful from it by now. It could be powerful i guess, maybe with enough plugins it can do anything, i dunno, does anyone here work with this stuff?


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 Post subject: Re: Visual programming languages. ie: Max/MSP
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:26 pm 
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What platform are you interested in? You mentioned C#, so maybe you're curious about mobile development?

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 Post subject: Re: Visual programming languages. ie: Max/MSP
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:02 am 
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I wanna experiment with the Kinect, and perhaps those Oculus Rift VR googles when they arrive. Computer vision stuff and robotics stuff, i guess being able to play around with ROS would be nice.
(The OCR stuff in OP's video is certainly something i'd like to play with)
Windows platform, but maybe i'll need to get more familiar with Linux for the ROS stuff, dunno. (update: yeah i'll probably run ROS in VirtualBOX this seems easy enough.)
Mobile development? Maybe later, that'd actually be pretty cool to dip my feet into. The closed app markets make it kinda offputting though.
I haven't done any C#, yet.

I more-so just need to get back into it, i haven't programmed for years, it's probably good for the brain, it was fun, i should get back into it. But while i'm at it i may as well chose something good to start with - I see these visual programming languages like Max/MSP and it seems rather inviting.
I wanna start off again with something fun, this visual stuff seems fun.

(If it helps: IIRC the last thing i was doing was C++ stuff (some free compiler, maybe Dev C++), Direct3D visualisations of things controlled by the P5 Glove. I had very little idea what i was doing, but it was working out)


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 Post subject: Re: Visual programming languages. ie: Max/MSP
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 12:08 am 
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Visual languages? We'll have to see what Jeff says, since I'm hardly good enough to call myself a noob.

My experience has shown me to like languages I can read without needing fancy IDEs. There's something to be said about languages you can sit and read.


Something to consider.

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 Post subject: Re: Visual programming languages. ie: Max/MSP
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:16 am 
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I used LabVIEW in one of my physics classes, and I enjoyed it quite a bit. You could essentially set up functions as self-contained little "machines," and stepping through the code in debug made it very easy to see where something was generating the wrong value.


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 Post subject: Re: Visual programming languages. ie: Max/MSP
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:40 pm 
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I've started using Quickly to make personal apps for my own use. It also lets me upload my apps to my own PPA, it looks. You can use it's glade editor or directly edit your project's python files.

I want to my own personal:

1. ebook maker which turns making an ebook into a game, rather than being automatic. I believe it will be the best ebook program ever made.
2. Simple calender software, which amortizes and allocates time resources or project completion levels.

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 Post subject: Re: Visual programming languages. ie: Max/MSP
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:25 am 
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Max/MSP? I'm not familiar with those.

When you say "Visual Programming Languages", I tend to think of Microsoft Visual Studio Languages such as C++, C#, Visual Basic, F#, etc.

I would assume that you are interested in C++ or C# based on the topic at hand... Of which, C# is the better of the 2.

In the last 3 years or so, I have dealt with a lot of differences in different flavors of C++ which gets very very annoying... Especially when trying to convert between the many flavors of just strings. MFC C++ is a lot different than C++ CLR applications... you have to write code to match which one you are dealing with... then finding the proper .h files to include gets to be a major headache at times.

I'd suggest C# since it is much cleaner and easier to code.

:rant:


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 Post subject: Re: Visual programming languages. ie: Max/MSP
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:55 am 
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Visual programming languages usually refer to those where you build software by, more or less, drawing graphs. Drag-and-drop, connection points, that sort of thing. I haven't heard of anyone using them for major general-purpose projects (most likely things start to come unglued) but they're out there.

I think the "visual" in the Microsoft IDEs mainly refers to the UI designer. (Which was probably a very big deal in the early 1990s.) The bulk of the code is still written the traditional way. Though I'd have to figure you're already well aware of that given your background :)


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 Post subject: Re: Visual programming languages. ie: Max/MSP
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:08 am 
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I used to have a Physics roommate who swore by LabVIEW, but I always made fun of him for it.

Most programming languages designed for "other people" (Cobol, C++, ...) typically leave something to be desired, so my question is are these visual languages designed by some people for other people, or are they designed by some people for themselves?


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 Post subject: Re: Visual programming languages. ie: Max/MSP
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:50 am 
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I don't know why I hadn't thought of it before, but everyone's favorite time-sink Minecraft includes a visual programming language in the form of redstone. You can arrange the different components to create basic logic gates, and then work your way up from there. The entire redstone wiring system is essentially Turing-complete, and a few brave/crazy souls out there have even built fully-functioning computers within the game...granted, they run somewhere south of 1 Hz, but they still work. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Visual programming languages. ie: Max/MSP
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:35 am 
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Sirius,

Point well taken.

At least in Microsoft Visual Studio projects, you simply layout the Form Design then add the code behind the scenes which saves hundreds or thousands of hours when doing a large project. I do have hidden objects on form dialogs in many projects that get moved and unhidden / rehidden at the appropriate times.

Most of my projects end up taking months / years to do.

Created a concept program about 4 or 5 years ago that we just recently put into production because recently we had a need for what it was designed to do.

Personally keep my failed concept programs as well as good concept programs as they are food for thought for new projects or helpful when adding in their test code into real world projects.

Ah the headaches and joys of programming... Most of the time it is a lot of fun to see the end results of your labors!

8)


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