M$ Sidewinder 3D Pro on USB - 2?

crazy328 · Post by **crazy328** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:18 pm

very nice.. just keep me posted grendel

claancy · Post by **claancy** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:15 pm

Hi,

If it's not too late, I'd like to get two of these. I haven't been able to find a 'stick that I like as much as my old Sidewinders, and then I stumbled into this forum...

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:33 pm

Ok top prices are for running the boards AS IS, this means NOT setup for wave soldering. The bottom set of figures covers recreating the boards i.e. panelization.

I can not, nor will I be willing to solder boards....

SO it's up to you if you want to pay more for a completed unit or if I just purchase blank boards and leave each of you with that. (about 8 bucks per board more!)

Mike,

Individual route prices.

60 brds-2wks-$400.00 Lot
60 brds-wk-$500.00 Lot

Breakaway panel pricing below

3 panels=$140.00/panel
Re-Tooling $120.00=Total-$540.00
21 up (3 x 7)- 10 x 14 finish Panel Size

Credit Card or check payment in advance.

Thanks,
Debra
Gemini Circuits

I'm positive this price doesn't reflect the 8.25% sales tax.

So ... I need to know what everyone wants to do.

claancy I added your's to the mix.

crazy328 · Post by **crazy328** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:54 pm

so what's the official price for the boards, completed? or will I not worry about that price too much since Grendel is looking into the FFP for me?

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:35 pm

Good news -- I do have the code modified so the converter can talk to the Precision Pro or 3D Pro Plus (older version of the PP). Since the FFP has supposedly the same data format, it's very likely that the converter will work w/ the FFP as well

The code needs some more work -- right now there are two different version of the firmware to talk to a 3DP or the PP series. I would like to have them merged in a way that the converter detects if a 3DP or PP type stick is connected and selects the appropriate set of USB descriptors. It's not that trivial tho, it'll take a bit until I'm there. Also, somehow I need to verify that the FFP will work of course..

crazy328 · Post by **crazy328** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:22 pm

that's great news grendel!! if you need me to do anything.. or want extra compensation for all your hard work, i'm willing.. just wanna be able to use my ffp =P

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:38 am

Nah, as long it's entertaining for me I'm fine

Currently the firmware actually detects what stick is connected (3DP or PP) and uses different USB descriptors & processing code. Ie. a 3DP shows up as \"Microsoft SideWinder 3D Pro (USB)\" and the PP as \"Microsoft SideWinder Precision Pro (USB)\". I do have the set for the \"Microsoft SideWinder Force Feedback Pro (USB)\" in place, but I need a FFP for testing. Working on it..

Grax · Post by **Grax** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:45 pm

put me down for a complete, m8

WillyP · Post by **WillyP** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 5:37 pm

If this works for the Prescision, put me down for a second unit. If you need a PP for testing, I can mail you one.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 7:43 pm

I got two PP's, thanks -- works w/ them (old & new version). I need a FFP -- just missed the end of the auction I put my eye on. Work sux, too distracting

Edit: Here is a picture of the \"hardware modification\" that needs to be done for use w/ the PP (or FFP). A 3DP will still work w/ the mod.

vb · Post by vb » Wed Jun 13, 2007 11:33 am

Hi,

1st post here.

To KoolBear, just wondering if it is possible for me to get the PCB file since I planning to build it my self.

Anyway, thanks for the great work, really appreciate your effort there.

Vic

WillyP · Post by **WillyP** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:51 pm

Cool! I know you don't like the PP, so thanks for doing this for those of us who do... I have two PP's and one 3D... and only one machine with a gameport.

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:53 am

1st Thread updates...

petem-j 1 Unit - by PM
Grax - 1 Unit
WillyP +1 Unit = 2 Units now

vb - all project files are located on the Grendels 3DP-Vert Website at http://grendel.koolbear.com/ or here's a direct link HERE

KB

vb · Post by vb » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:01 pm

KoolBear wrote: vb - all project files are located on the Grendels 3DP-Vert Website at http://grendel.koolbear.com/ or here's a direct link HERE
KB

Yeah, I've downloaded it, still there is no PCB files there.

What did you use for the PCB layout program ? Eagle ?

KoolBear · Post by **KoolBear** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:30 pm

OrCAD. OOP's maybe Grendel asked me for those. I'll find them AFTER I take my kids to the movies.

KB

Lethe · Post by **Lethe** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:42 pm

Hm, put me down for two full boards, in their little box and everything.
What I want to do:
connect my two sw3dpros to USB ports.

More specifically, I want the damn \"not connected\" error to go away and I want to future proof my joysticks so I can continue to play the best game ever with the best joysticks ever made.

Still taking orders I hope?

Bold Deceiver · Post by **Bold Deceiver** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:13 pm

KoolBear wrote:SO it's up to you if you want to pay more for a completed unit ... (about 8 bucks per board more!)

I would need completed units Mike. Can pay in advance if needed.

Thanks for your work,

Joe

vb · Post by vb » Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:05 pm

KoolBear wrote:OrCAD. OOP's maybe Grendel asked me for those. I'll find them AFTER I take my kids to the movies.

KB

Oh, ok ! Since I'm planning to do the laser printer toner transfer method, but I don't have OrCAD.

Is it possible to generate PDF file with 100% scale which usually very accurate, so don't have to go through scaling nighmare !

Thanks.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:05 pm

Getting a FFP tomorrow, stay tuned

crazy328 · Post by **crazy328** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:51 am

that's awesome grendel!.. let me know how it goes, if it works, i'll be ecstatic! =P =P

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:33 pm

So far so good. Needs more work, for some reason I can't get the ID packet out of this stick so the current condition to distinguish betw. the PP & FFP is the absense of an ID. Also, the FFP pulls all button lines low by default (3DP & PP pull them up..), I had to modify the bootloader to make that work. Work in progress, but I would say that the firmware for this batch of 3DP-Verts will support the 3DP, PP, and FFP.

The FFP I got has the part no. 96755, product ID starts w/ 66883-.. This FFP doesn't have a fan (the one I got in germany back in 97 had one). Anyone w/ different numbers ?

crazy328 · Post by **crazy328** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:50 pm

the part num on mine is 96755

the ID starts with 66883

so the same for me

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:07 pm

I'll deem it ok for now. Finished the detection of PP/FFP using the weired default button state of the FFP, figured out why I can't get an ID packet (hardware restriction, R/C timing value too big) and tried the PP & FFP for 10min each -- about as much time as I'm willing to spend on those sticks

You get a 30% chance that the PPs or FFPs microcontroller crashes if you plug it into a powered converter, but it seems to work 100% if you plug the stick in first and then connect the converter to USB.

The FFP is probably the most sturdy stick of the three, but also has a lot longer throw. The PP is the weakest of the three IMO, I don't like its flimsyness & handling at all. To each his own I guess

This version of the code will go into this batch of converters if it happens. I'll release the code on the 3DP-Vert site as soon I find some time to package it up and write some documentation.

crazy328 · Post by **crazy328** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:19 pm

sweet grendel!.. thanks for all your hard work on this.. it is much appreciated by me, as well as some other people out there.. and of course, i'd like one of the FFP ones =P

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:32 am

Grendel wrote:I'll release the code on the 3DP-Vert site as soon I find some time to package it up and write some documentation.

Done. Slow day..

vb · Post by vb » Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:46 am

Grendel wrote:
Grendel wrote:I'll release the code on the 3DP-Vert site as soon I find some time to package it up and write some documentation.
Done. Slow day..

Grendel,

Could you please zip in the PCB files as well, converted PDF if possible since I don't have OrCAD.

Thank you.

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:25 am

I still don't have them, sorry. KB ?

crazy328 · Post by **crazy328** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:08 pm

so, just curious, when will the FFP batch be ready for to buy? =P

i'm willing to wait however long

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:20 pm

Grendel wrote:

Code: Select all

Quantity|Part Number|Description|Unit Price USD|Extended Price USD

47  ATMEGA8-16PU-ND IC AVR MCU 8K 16MHZ 5V 28DIP     2.30000 $108.10 
47  LM556CNFS-ND    IC TIMER DUAL MONO 14-DIP        0.36000 $16.92 
47  X227-ND         CRYSTAL 12.000MHZ 20PF HC-49/US  0.51800 $24.35 
94  1N5226BDICT-ND  DIODE ZENER 3.3V 500MW 5% DO-35  0.21000 $19.74 
50  200QBK-ND       RES 200 OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM  0.05400 $2.70 
50  4.7KQBK-ND      RES 4.7K OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM 0.05400 $2.70 
95  82QBK-ND        RES 82 OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM   0.05400 $5.13 
145 2.2KQBK-ND      RES 2.2K OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM 0.05400 $7.83 
47  P5177-ND        CAP 4.7UF 50V ALUM LYTIC RADIAL  0.07700 $3.62 
94  399-4332-ND     CAP 15PF 200V 5% CER RADIAL      0.21200 $19.93 
190 BC1095CT-ND     CAP .010UF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%   0.05010 $9.52 
94  399-4329-ND     CAP .1UF 50V 10% CER RADIAL      0.15700 $14.76 
47  ED90064-ND      CONN RECEPT USB TYPE B PCB       1.13000 $53.11 
47  182-15FE-ND     CONN DB15 FEMAL .318" R/A NICKEL 1.46200 $68.71 
50  67-1647-ND      LED 3MM SHORT LENS SUPER RED CLR 0.27800 $13.90 

Subtotal $371.02

KB -- change in BOM: replace caps C8 & C9 (10nF) with 4.7nF BC1076CT-ND (CAP 4700PF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%).

The per-board requirement of

4x BC1095CT-ND (CAP .010UF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%)

changes to

2x BC1095CT-ND (CAP .010UF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%)
2x BC1076CT-ND (CAP 4700PF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%)

That way the converter is 100% compatible to the 3DP, PP & FFP.

A new project archive from today is available.

Tony12 · Post by **Tony12** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:11 pm

Found this forum while looking for a way to use my Sidewinder 3D Pro on my new XP PC. It's just killing me not being able to use it. I bought a Seitek Cyborg and it just doesn't compare. Sure would appreciate it.

Tony12

Tony12 · Post by **Tony12** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:14 pm

Sorry about that. Thought the subject line would show my request. I'd like you to put me in for one complete unit if it's not too late. Thank you.

Tony12

crazy328 · Post by **crazy328** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 9:40 pm

i would like to get a complete unit for the FFP if that's at all possible =D

JazzyJet · Post by **JazzyJet** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 11:44 pm

I would buy two for sure

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:13 am

KB -- another (possible) change in the BOM: Y1 can now be a 16MHz crystal. That relaxes the timing of the routine that clocks in the data from the stick. I'm testing this mod ATM, PM me before you order components.

The per board requirement of

1x X227-ND CRYSTAL 12.000MHZ 20PF HC-49/US

would change to

1x X176-ND CRYSTAL 16.000MHZ 20PF HC-49/US

Project archive of today is available.

dirt · Post by **dirt** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:10 pm

Hey kb, thnx for the login fix, e-mail was verified by your return.

Current 'puter sans a joystick port, can sign me up for two complete units...and where/how do I pay for this???

dirt

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:54 am

Ok, the 16MHz crystal is a \"go\". Current BOM for a single unit w/ DigiKey part numbers is:

Code: Select all

Quantity|Part Number|Description|Schematic
1  ATMEGA8-16PU-ND IC AVR MCU 8K 16MHZ 5V 28DIP      U1
1  LM556CNFS-ND    IC TIMER DUAL MONO 14-DIP         U2
1  X176-ND CRYSTAL 16.000MHZ 20PF HC-49/US           Y1
2  1N5226BDICT-ND  DIODE ZENER 3.3V 500MW 5% DO-35   D1,D2
1  200QBK-ND       RES 200 OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM   R1
1  4.7KQBK-ND      RES 4.7K OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM  R2
2  82QBK-ND        RES 82 OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM    R3,R4
3  2.2KQBK-ND      RES 2.2K OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM  R5,R6,R7
1  P5177-ND        CAP 4.7UF 50V ALUM LYTIC RADIAL   C1
2  399-4329-ND     CAP .1UF 50V 10% CER RADIAL       C2,C3
2  399-4332-ND     CAP 15PF 200V 5% CER RADIAL       C4,C5
2  BC1095CT-ND     CAP .010UF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%    C6,C7
2  BC1076CT-ND     CAP 4700PF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%    C8,C9
1  ED90064-ND      CONN RECEPT USB TYPE B PCB        JP1
1  182-15FE-ND     CONN DB15 FEMAL .318\" R/A NICKEL  J2
1  67-1647-ND      LED 3MM SHORT LENS SUPER RED CLR  DS1

Dang proportional font.. Someone change the CODE font to courier please..

Mowgli · Post by **Mowgli** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:12 am

Hey, guys.

Like a few other people I've stumbled across this board while trying to resurrect my old Sidewinder 3D Pro.

If it's possible I'd love to sign up for either a kit of parts or complete assembly - whichever's easiest to ship across the water.

Any chance?

Mowgli

Lightnin · Post by **Lightnin** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:44 pm

Will these work with Vista Ultimate 64 bit version?

If so, please put me down for the following:

1x full Unit
1x bare board only

Thanks a ton!

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:43 am

Lightnin wrote:Will these work with Vista Ultimate 64 bit version?

I tried it w/ a Laptop that had Vista Home something on it, worked just fine. I don't see a reason why it wouldn't work w/ x64 U

Grendel · Post by **Grendel** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:38 pm

Grendel wrote:Ok, the 16MHz crystal is a "go".

Turns out that the 16MHz code path is less reliable than the 12MHz version. So for now back to the 12MHz crystal, sorry for the confusion. KB, get your vent going

Current BOM for a single unit w/ DigiKey part numbers is:

Code: Select all

Quantity|Part Number|Description|Schematic
1  ATMEGA8-16PU-ND IC AVR MCU 8K 16MHZ 5V 28DIP      U1
1  LM556CNFS-ND    IC TIMER DUAL MONO 14-DIP         U2
1  X227-ND         CRYSTAL 12.000MHZ 20PF HC-49/US           Y1
2  1N5226BDICT-ND  DIODE ZENER 3.3V 500MW 5% DO-35   D1,D2
1  200QBK-ND       RES 200 OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM   R1
1  4.7KQBK-ND      RES 4.7K OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM  R2
2  82QBK-ND        RES 82 OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM    R3,R4
3  2.2KQBK-ND      RES 2.2K OHM 1/4W 5% CARBON FILM  R5,R6,R7
1  P5177-ND        CAP 4.7UF 50V ALUM LYTIC RADIAL   C1
2  399-4329-ND     CAP .1UF 50V 10% CER RADIAL       C2,C3
2  399-4332-ND     CAP 15PF 200V 5% CER RADIAL       C4,C5
2  BC1095CT-ND     CAP .010UF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%    C6,C7
2  BC1076CT-ND     CAP 4700PF 50V CERAMIC X7R 10%    C8,C9
1  ED90064-ND      CONN RECEPT USB TYPE B PCB        JP1
1  182-15FE-ND     CONN DB15 FEMAL .318" R/A NICKEL  J2
1  67-1647-ND      LED 3MM SHORT LENS SUPER RED CLR  DS1

M$ Sidewinder 3D Pro on USB - 2?

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Please count me in for one complete unit if not too late!

Sorry about that.

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From Erin's green (and wet!) Isle

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