* FAQ    * Search  * Register * Login 
Active topics
Unanswered topics

All times are UTC-06:00



Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 269 posts ]  1 3 4 5 6 7
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:32 pm 
Offline
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Posts: 4358
Location: Corvallis OR, USA
Ok, that was easier than I thought. You can find the source and hex image for the Teensy 2.0 at drive.google.com under /file/d/0ByFalc_WhYosX0o0cTB0My0tUTA/edit?usp=sharing (you will have to assemble the url, I don't want bots picking up the file.)

This code replaces the hat switches with a mini-joystick as POV controller. The new axis are reported as Rx and Ry. The mini-stick X axis is read on pin F4, the Y axis on F5. The mini-sticks I used in my mod and mockup are discontinued, but this one should work (and, more importantly, fit into the 3DPro.)

Image Image

Turns out you will need to run only two signals from the mini-stick to the controller and the 3DPro's cable can hold them. The X2 and Y1 signals are not used by the adapter and can be repurposed. You still need to run 4 wires through the handle -- one for GND, one for +5V, one for Rx, and one for Ry.

Inside the 3DPro the cable breaks out into 11 seperate wires and connects to the sticks main PCB. The key to the colors is:

Code:
 1 Orange  X2 Axis    6
 2 Grey    X1 Axis    3
 3 Brown   Y1 Axis   11
 4 White   Y2 Axis   13
 5 Black   GND        4
 6 Purple  Button 1   2
 7 Blue    Button 2   7
 8 Shield            Shield
 9 Red     +5V        1
10 Green   Button 3  10
11 Yellow  Button 4  14
 | |       |          |
 | |       |          +-- DB15 pin no.
 | |       +------------- Signal name
 +-+--------------------- Internal pin no. and wire color


To connect the POV mini-stick, use the Black and Red wires to find GND and +5V pads. Cut the Orange and Brown wires close to the internal connector and connect them to the wires comming from the mini-stick. If you use Brown for Rx and Orange for Ry, the wiring on the controller should look like this:

Image

Let me know if you have any questions.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:22 am 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet

Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:46 am
Posts: 2
Location: Sydney, Australia
Hi guys,

After coming across this converter a few years back, I've finally decided it's time to bite the bullet and actually make one for my long-defunct 3DP. I'm not sure what I'll actually use it for these days (I'm not a Descent player), but MW2 is what I grew up with using it, so if I can resurrect that I'll be laughing :lol:.

Thanks to everyone who has posted their issues, designs and ideas. I've spent most of the afternoon reading through the entirety of this thread to see the different approaches people have taken, and there are some really good ones 8).

I'm planning to prototype on a breadboard first, and then move to a more permanent stripboard design in an enclosure. It will probably be quite some time before I get the parts and the time to do anything with them, but once I'm done I'll be sure to post some pictures.

Question for Grendel in the mean time though - are there any plans to port the code to the new processing chips on the Teensy 3.0 and/or 3.1? Or is that too much work as the architecture is so different it would require a full re-design?

Cheers,

Wraith

(P.S. Any other Aussies here?)


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:37 pm 
Offline
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:01 pm
Posts: 58
If you want to build your own board that's great. Enjoy your project. :)

If you'd rather buy one then check out what I'm selling here.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19061&start=90

Compatible with Force Feedback Pro, Precision Pro, 3D Pro, (still waiting confirmation on 3D Pro Plus but shouldn't be a problem), and on Windows XP through 8, and just confirmed on Mac OS X. Force Feedback Wheel support is in the development stages. The developers (Cal, Skoo, and Grendel) have a beta firmware that allows the wheel to work without any FFB effects yet.

$40.00 plus actual shipping charges. International shipping from USA ranges from about $12.00 (slow boat...4-6 weeks, less if you're lucky) to over $100.00 to get it faster with tracking and insurance.

_________________
=================
Run #3 is happening! Please CLICK HERE and sign up if you're interested. A custom 3D printed case is available for V2.0 boards. Run #1 boards will NOT fit (sorry folks). More info is on MY SITE.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 7:14 pm 
Offline
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Posts: 4358
Location: Corvallis OR, USA
Wraith wrote:
Question for Grendel in the mean time though - are there any plans to port the code to the new processing chips on the Teensy 3.0 and/or 3.1? Or is that too much work as the architecture is so different it would require a full re-design?

The 3.X Teensy's are ARM based, a very different architecture. I do have a couple, once I got more experience w/ these I may port the code. Just don't wait for it ;)


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:49 am 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet

Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:46 am
Posts: 2
Location: Sydney, Australia
Grendel wrote:
Wraith wrote:
Question for Grendel in the mean time though - are there any plans to port the code to the new processing chips on the Teensy 3.0 and/or 3.1? Or is that too much work as the architecture is so different it would require a full re-design?

The 3.X Teensy's are ARM based, a very different architecture. I do have a couple, once I got more experience w/ these I may port the code. Just don't wait for it ;)

Thanks for the quick response Grendel, I figured that would probably be the case. I'll go with Teensy 2.0 then. I couldn't find it written anywhere, so I'm just going to ask - is "Vert" short for "converter"?

Scanjo wrote:
If you want to build your own board that's great. Enjoy your project. :)

If you'd rather buy one then check out what I'm selling here.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19061&start=90

Compatible with Force Feedback Pro, Precision Pro, 3D Pro, (still waiting confirmation on 3D Pro Plus but shouldn't be a problem), and on Windows XP through 8, and just confirmed on Mac OS X. Force Feedback Wheel support is in the development stages. The developers (Cal, Skoo, and Grendel) have a beta firmware that allows the wheel to work without any FFB effects yet.

$40.00 plus actual shipping charges. International shipping from USA ranges from about $12.00 (slow boat...4-6 weeks, less if you're lucky) to over $100.00 to get it faster with tracking and insurance.

Thanks Scanjo for pointing me to the FFB development thread. I read all of that one too :D. Seems there is some great progress being made on that front in recent months. Thanks too for all your work designing a circuit board to support both projects. Since I only own the 3DP, I think I'll stick with 3DP-Vert and build it myself. More compact, less parts, less cost and most importantly, more fun :mrgreen:!

My curiosity has been piqued though, how did you end up sorting out the missing pin 13 issue for 3DP compatibility? Did you end up doing the same thing as Overkill211 and adding a fourth resistor and changing the software to suit? A photo of the new board you mentioned would be good.

Cheers,

Wraith


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:49 pm 
Offline
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:01 pm
Posts: 58
Wraith wrote:
Scanjo wrote:
If you want to build your own board that's great. Enjoy your project. :)

If you'd rather buy one then check out what I'm selling here.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19061&start=90

Compatible with Force Feedback Pro, Precision Pro, 3D Pro, (still waiting confirmation on 3D Pro Plus but shouldn't be a problem), and on Windows XP through 8, and just confirmed on Mac OS X. Force Feedback Wheel support is in the development stages. The developers (Cal, Skoo, and Grendel) have a beta firmware that allows the wheel to work without any FFB effects yet.

$40.00 plus actual shipping charges. International shipping from USA ranges from about $12.00 (slow boat...4-6 weeks, less if you're lucky) to over $100.00 to get it faster with tracking and insurance.

Thanks Scanjo for pointing me to the FFB development thread. I read all of that one too :D. Seems there is some great progress being made on that front in recent months. Thanks too for all your work designing a circuit board to support both projects. Since I only own the 3DP, I think I'll stick with 3DP-Vert and build it myself. More compact, less parts, less cost and most importantly, more fun :mrgreen:!

My curiosity has been piqued though, how did you end up sorting out the missing pin 13 issue for 3DP compatibility? Did you end up doing the same thing as Overkill211 and adding a fourth resistor and changing the software to suit? A photo of the new board you mentioned would be good.


It's the same board with a bridge wire between pins 11 & 13. There are no additional parts except except a short wire. My inattention to detail caused the problem, but looking over the schematics after the fact helped sort it out. The schematic I used was for the Force Feedback project. Cal had to move some pins to get the MIDI stuff going and ripped out the code for the other sticks while developing his project. Grendel came through with some modified firmware to run on the FFB board using the other pins Cal chose. If you want Force Feedback effects, you run Cal's firmware. If you want to use any of the joysticks including the FFP without FFB, you run Grendels modified code for this board. Pins 11 & 13 carry the same signal and the stick you use is hooked to only one of them. The extra pin is simply ignored.

The long term goal is to have one board and one firmware to run all the sticks AND the wheel with FFB where applicable. There are no guarantees it will happen, or if it does...when. It looks very promising that the wheel support will happen, but there may be space problems when trying to combine everything. There is limited storage space and memory space on the Teensy 2.0.

As for being cheaper to build your own...have you priced everything? The difference in parts is 1 resistor if you don't use the extra header and trim pots. When trying to buy only what you need, the prices are inflated. You may be surprised. I had to order some parts in bulk from China to keep the price reasonable. Radio Shack resistors are about $.30 each and mine are under a nickel. The breadboard DB-15 is $8.00 plus shipping ($6.00?). I use a right angle connector for $.73 and about $.20 shipping when spread over 50 pieces. I totally understand the fun factor of doing the project yourself, but if saving money is a determining factor, take another look. If you just want to build it yourself, I also offer it as a kit for $35 plus shipping.

Scott

_________________
=================
Run #3 is happening! Please CLICK HERE and sign up if you're interested. A custom 3D printed case is available for V2.0 boards. Run #1 boards will NOT fit (sorry folks). More info is on MY SITE.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:39 pm 
Offline
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Posts: 4358
Location: Corvallis OR, USA
Wraith wrote:
I couldn't find it written anywhere, so I'm just going to ask - is "Vert" short for "converter"?

Yea :mrgreen:


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:58 am 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 7
I created one of these:

1 Teensy 2.0 board, $19 (PJRC)
1 PBC15F, $8 (Winford)
1 Breadboard, $8.99 (RadioShack)
1 Wire Kit, $5.99 (RadioShack)
2 1kOhm resistors, $.99 (5) (RadioShack)
2 .001uF capacitors, $1.49 (RadioShack)

The program image and the Teensy loader.

from the post earlier in the thread.

Unfortunately I have a problem that I haven't been able to diagnose yet.

I have 3 sidewinder 3d pros that I used to use a lot and I saw this thread and thought cool let me give this a shot.

My problem is that although the board and stick are recognized in Windows 7 the output is partially bad. In the settings screen buttons 2 and 5 stay lit as if they are pressed. This happens as soon as a I press any button. Buttons 2 and 5 do not toggle off even if I press them. Buttons 5-8 partially work sometimes. The slider is very jittery and the x/y axis kinda works but seems a bit jerky. I looked at the raw values and they don't seem a smooth progression.

I tried each of my 3 sticks and I think they had similar problems (I need to do a more exhaustive test). I also plugged my setup into an older xp laptop but I got a popup that the "device has exceeded the USB power limits". I don't get that message on my Windows 7 machine.

I can take pics of my board and post them if that would be useful.

Any ideas on what could be going on?


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:33 pm 
Offline
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Posts: 4358
Location: Corvallis OR, USA
Could be a short or intermittent connection. The 1st place to check is underneath the PBC15F for pinched wires. If that's not the case, some pictures of the build would help, yes.

Edit: oh, and the current PBC15F version has an additional pin for shield IIRC. Safest is to clip it so it's out of the way.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:39 pm 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 7
I'll post some pics tonight. I thought I did a good job but we will see.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:52 pm 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 7
I did clip the SH pin pretty close. I don't think it is touching anything but since the DB15 is the first question I'll take a close look.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:51 pm 
Offline
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:01 pm
Posts: 58
If the 3 sticks don't have the exact same problems, then don't rule out the possibility that the buttons are dirty from sitting unused for years. I had to tear my FFP apart and clean buttons 4, 6, & 7. I used some 90% rubbing alcohol. Dab a little on the switch and wiggle the button of the switch all over as best you can (there's a little bit of play in them). Keep dabbing a bit of alcohol every now and then so it can soak in. Worked on each for about 5 minutes or so. It made them usable, but not perfect. The perfect fix would be replacement of the switches.

Be sure you let it sit open over night so everything can dry out before plugging in.

_________________
=================
Run #3 is happening! Please CLICK HERE and sign up if you're interested. A custom 3D printed case is available for V2.0 boards. Run #1 boards will NOT fit (sorry folks). More info is on MY SITE.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 3:57 pm 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 7
Thanks but I think they had similar problems but subject to a retest tonight. One issue a stick or 2 does have is a sticky slider. Has anyone solved that one? Silicon?


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:05 pm 
Offline
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:01 pm
Posts: 58
stuggy wrote:
One issue a stick or 2 does have is a sticky slider. Has anyone solved that one? Silicon?


I'd try alcohol first or electronics cleaner. I prefer alcohol because it doesn't evaporate as fast, gives more time to work the parts around to get the dirt to loosen and flow out. Silicon is going to leave a film behind which will attract dust and nasty stuff, which puts you right back where you started sooner. Just use plenty of alcohol and work the slider back and forth a lot. Give it plenty of time to dry completely. Some canned air to help start the drying doesn't hurt and helps get the dirt out better.

Again I'll say to use 90% alcohol or better. Water on electronics is a bad thing so use the highest % alcohol you can find. Typical rubbing alcohol is 70% and should be avoided.

_________________
=================
Run #3 is happening! Please CLICK HERE and sign up if you're interested. A custom 3D printed case is available for V2.0 boards. Run #1 boards will NOT fit (sorry folks). More info is on MY SITE.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:29 pm 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 7
I am happy to report that the problem is fixed. Even though I snipped off the SH pin there was a little stub that must have been making contact with the wire that is in that slot. I cut a rubber band and inserted under where the cut off pin was and now all seems extremely good.

I hope this helps someone else in the future.

Pics to follow.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:50 pm 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 7
Attachment:
IMG_1989.jpg
IMG_1989.jpg [ 168.41 KiB | Viewed 9384 times ]


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:03 pm 
Offline
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Posts: 4358
Location: Corvallis OR, USA
:D


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:48 am 
Offline
DBB Master
DBB Master
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 3:01 am
Posts: 7055
Man, this is making my original-run board feel like an antique. Still works just great though. :D


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:27 pm 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet

Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:14 pm
Posts: 7
I ordered the mini joystick as a replacement for the POV button. Are the instructions back in the thread still the way to go? I think the rev 3 code supports this as is right?


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:44 pm 
Offline
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:01 pm
Posts: 58
The mini joystick is discussed on the previous page. Pics, wiring, and link to firmware supporting it.

_________________
=================
Run #3 is happening! Please CLICK HERE and sign up if you're interested. A custom 3D printed case is available for V2.0 boards. Run #1 boards will NOT fit (sorry folks). More info is on MY SITE.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:10 pm 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:58 am
Posts: 3
Location: Germany
Hello all together. I would like to share a recent success: Using a MS Sidewinder 3D Pro to remote control my "Black Eagle" truck: http://y2u.be/LhRz5rwPnuc

Dear Grendel, thank you for your great support and providing the software!

I would like to avoid that this achievement is lost, if I should have less time in the future. So I provide the main.c of the receiver (Mega328p in the car) and the transmitter (Mega32U4 in the joystick). I know, a lot of the programming can be made better. Maybe someone can use it and improve it. I would be happy :)

Have a nice weekend :)


Attachments:
File comment: TRANSMITTER main.c
main.c [16.64 KiB]
Downloaded 110 times
File comment: RECEIVER main.c
main.c [20.12 KiB]
Downloaded 95 times
Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:22 am 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet

Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:06 am
Posts: 1
Hi!

I have an Sidewinder 3D Pro Plus and i build this adapter . but i cant get it to work :(
After flashing the Teensy 2.0 Board with the Hexfile and rebooting the teensy with only the teensy connected to the pc (without the pcb and the joystick) should it be recognized from windows 7 ? (led is flashing) My teensy is only recognized from Win7 during flashing!

thanks in advance and many thanx for the layout and the hexfile!


Here is the log from the Teensyloader : (is this ok ? : Error: can't open file 'D:\sidewinder\3DPro32u4-9.elf' )

18:19:33: Open File event
18:19:45: File "3DPro32u4-9.hex". 4262 bytes, 13% used
18:19:50: Verbose Info event
18:19:58: Program event
18:19:58: File "3DPro32u4-9.hex". 4262 bytes, 13% used
18:19:58: Error: can't open file 'D:\sidewinder\3DPro32u4-9.elf' (error 2: das System kann die angegebene Datei nicht finden.)
18:19:58: Code size from .elf file = 0
18:19:58: begin operation
18:19:58: flash, block=0, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=1, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=2, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=3, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=4, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=5, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=6, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=7, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=8, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=9, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=10, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=11, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=12, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=13, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=14, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=15, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=16, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=17, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=18, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=19, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=20, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=21, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=22, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=23, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=24, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=25, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=26, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=27, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=28, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=29, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=30, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=31, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=32, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: flash, block=33, bs=128, auto=0
18:19:58: end operation
18:19:58: redraw timer set, image 12 to show for 1500 ms
18:20:00: redraw, image 10
18:20:02: Reboot event

greets
DeCi


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:03 pm 
Offline
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:01 pm
Posts: 58
Your computer won't recognize the Teensy alone or on the circuit. You need to have a joystick plugged in for it to be recognized. The hexfile is to recognize an HID (Human Interface Device). That's the joystick, not the Teensy. If there is an error on your board you built, then it's not going to work.

If you take some close up pics and post them here then I'm sure someone can help diagnose any problems in your build if they exist.

_________________
=================
Run #3 is happening! Please CLICK HERE and sign up if you're interested. A custom 3D printed case is available for V2.0 boards. Run #1 boards will NOT fit (sorry folks). More info is on MY SITE.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:32 pm 
Offline
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Posts: 4358
Location: Corvallis OR, USA
decibel666 wrote:
After flashing the Teensy 2.0 Board with the Hexfile and rebooting the teensy with only the teensy connected to the pc (without the pcb and the joystick) should it be recognized from windows 7 ? (led is flashing) My teensy is only recognized from Win7 during flashing!

Scanjo is right. This is by design, the converter picks different USB descriptors depending on the joystick that is connected -- only after finding and ID'ing a stick the converter has enough information to activate the USB interface. The blinking LED is meant as an indicator that the converter is up & running, waiting for a stick to connect.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:48 am 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:44 am
Posts: 6
I have some serious problems with this.

The joystick is recognized by windows but most of the buttons won't work, and worst of all, the axis movement is jittery and inprecise, it does not register at all like it should.
I want to get this sorted but i dont know att all where to start.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:32 pm 
Offline
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:01 pm
Posts: 58
FiskFisk33 wrote:
I have some serious problems with this.

The joystick is recognized by windows but most of the buttons won't work, and worst of all, the axis movement is jittery and inprecise, it does not register at all like it should.
I want to get this sorted but i dont know att all where to start.


We need a little more info to be able to help you. There are several different discussions that have gone on in this thread. What exactly do you have for an adapter? Did you get one of mine? Did you build your own on a bread board? A picture is worth a thousand words... ;)

_________________
=================
Run #3 is happening! Please CLICK HERE and sign up if you're interested. A custom 3D printed case is available for V2.0 boards. Run #1 boards will NOT fit (sorry folks). More info is on MY SITE.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:45 pm 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:44 am
Posts: 6
Sorry for the potato quality but its what i have at hands (my ipod)

Image
Image
Image
Image
http://imgur.com/a/rpW9l

Its the r3 with the teensy, i have triple checked the solders on the db15 and nothing is shorted.
I can't find whats wrong..

btw i have the microsoft sidewinder 3d pro


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:01 am 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:44 am
Posts: 6
I might add that the problems stuggy had here http://www.descentbb.net/viewtopic.php?p=331647#p331647 is VERY similar to what I'm experiencing.
But since I'm using different db15 hardware i dont have a sh pin touching anywhere.

I see though that he is using 1kOhm resistors where i use 2.2kOhm as specified on the google code page.

maybe the wires i use soldered to the db15 is too skinny? the metal cores in those flexible ones is very thin, could this cause problems here?


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:26 pm 
Offline
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:01 pm
Posts: 58
Unfortunately the quality of the pics is not good enough for me to double check the connections. Maybe my old eyes don't help... ;)

If you have checked once again to be sure there are no problems in the wiring, it could be a bad or wrong size capacitor. I remember reading another post where some bad capacitors caused similar problems. Caps are cheap. You might just try some new ones if you don't have a tester. They should be .001uf.

Another person was having issues and it was bad connections in the breadboard. Not sure what to tell you to do about this one. Wiggle wires and hope it works?

Make sure you are using the correct pins on the DB-15. Looking at the back where you are soldering wires it should be pins 1-8 from left to right in the top row and 9-15 left to right in the bottom row. It's easy to get confused.

I also read one post where the schematic was confusing and caused an improper connection. Triple check.
Code:
 DB-15         Teensy
=======       ========
  1             5v
  2             D0
  3             B5
  4           Ground
  5 & 6         NC   (NC = Not Connected)
  7             D1
  8 & 9         NC
  10            D2
  11 & 12       NC
  13            B4   (on my board I connect pins 11 & 13 to B4 to support multiple joysticks)
  14            D3
  15            NC

If you still can't get it to work, you can try my schematic. I have a hybrid board that supports FFP, PP, 3DP, and 3DP Pro. Grendel whipped up software to support the pin changes but functionally it's the same as the 3DP-Vert.

Attachment:
schematic.jpg
schematic.jpg [ 96.9 KiB | Viewed 8734 times ]


Please note! The Teensy is flipped in this schematic. Use the pin labels! If you are not going to use a Force Feedback Pro then you can safely omit the 220 ohm resistor and all connections between PD3 on the Teensy and pin 12 on the DB-15 (used for FFB commands). You must use the 3DPro32u4-10.hex firmware with this design which is modified for the changed pin usage on the Teensy.

FiskFisk33 wrote:
maybe the wires i use soldered to the db15 is too skinny? the metal cores in those flexible ones is very thin, could this cause problems here?

I don't THINK that would be a problem. I use very small traces on my PCB. It MIGHT be an issue with 5v and ground but the rest should be for signals. I'm not an engineer so I can't give a qualified answer.

I'm just trying to give you ideas to try. Hopefully one will work for you. With better pics I might be able to spot something. This what we have... Good luck.

_________________
=================
Run #3 is happening! Please CLICK HERE and sign up if you're interested. A custom 3D printed case is available for V2.0 boards. Run #1 boards will NOT fit (sorry folks). More info is on MY SITE.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 2:04 am 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:44 am
Posts: 6
i've checked the connections and they seem to match up,
what I notice now is that the caps I'm using is rated for 50V and that the caps the text file on the google page is linking to caps rated for 500V

could this cause problems?

oh and thanks for really great answers, I'll see if i can find a better camera.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:44 am 
Offline
DBB Database Master
DBB Database Master
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 29, 1998 3:01 am
Posts: 15118
ICQ: 46028958
Website: http://krom.d3k.org
AOL: dutenhnj
Location: Camping the energy center. BTW, did you know you can have up to 100 characters in this location box?
You can probably get better pics out of the ipod by taking them in a brighter environment (at least as bright as daytime sunlight) and hold the camera a bit further away because the pics were out of focus from holding it too close.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:41 pm 
Offline
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:01 pm
Posts: 58
FiskFisk33 wrote:
i've checked the connections and they seem to match up,
what I notice now is that the caps I'm using is rated for 50V and that the caps the text file on the google page is linking to caps rated for 500V

could this cause problems?

oh and thanks for really great answers, I'll see if i can find a better camera.


50v should be plenty. 500v is just overkill but shouldn't cause problems. This circuit runs on 5v from the USB connector so 50v is actually overkill... The more important thing is the Farad rating.

Good pics would be the biggest help. I do much better if I can SEE. You could be looking right at the problem and it just doesn't register as a problem, but one of us could take one look and go "well it's right there. That won't work...". Maybe you could get a friend with a digital camera to snap a couple for you?

I wonder if breadboards have ever been faulty... We're assuming that it's good but that could bite us. :( Do you have a multimeter that you could double check the breadboard for shorts? Based on the symptoms and you pointing out the previous post about a short under the DB-15 connector, we shouldn't rule out a faulty breadboard...

My answers are the best I have. I hope they're good enough. :)

_________________
=================
Run #3 is happening! Please CLICK HERE and sign up if you're interested. A custom 3D printed case is available for V2.0 boards. Run #1 boards will NOT fit (sorry folks). More info is on MY SITE.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:52 am 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:44 am
Posts: 6
hm, the capacitors should be (says so on the bag) 1nF
the markings on them are:
102
RoHS
should mean 1000pF/1nF/.001uF, right?

I've checked around the board with my multimeter for shorts but i havent been able to find any.

heres some new pictures, found a stronger lamp.
Click to view the full size image.
Click to view the full size image.
Click to view the full size image.
Click to view the full size image.
Click to view the full size image.
pins 1-8 right to left
plastic bag for better visibility

Click to view the full size image.
pins 9-15, left to right right to left.
the 1pF caps in the bag is NOT the ones i use for this project.
http://imgur.com/a/jYAHf imgur album


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:11 am 
Offline
3d Pro Master
3d Pro Master
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:01 am
Posts: 4358
Location: Corvallis OR, USA
FiskFisk33 wrote:
I have some serious problems with this.

The joystick is recognized by windows but most of the buttons won't work, and worst of all, the axis movement is jittery and inprecise, it does not register at all like it should.
I want to get this sorted but i dont know att all where to start.

Your wiring looks fine. The caps should be 1nF (IIRC 102 is the correct value), the resistors are less important, 2k2 or 1k should work equally well. A jitter of up to +/- 10 (raw) on the axes is pretty normal for a 3DPro (since the ranges are 1024 and 512.) If you are unsure if the wires are too flimsy, measure their resistance -- a 3DP draws up to 45mA, calculate the voltage drop via resistance * 0.045 -- if it's > 0.2 it actually could be too flimsy. If the solder joints on the DB15 connector look good, check the other end of the wires as well, it could be an intermittent connection on one of the 4 button lines (D0-D3, these carry the data.)

A few questions -- what joystick are your using ? How are you testing the values ?


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:37 pm 
Offline
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:01 pm
Posts: 58
I'll leave you in the much more capable hands of Grendel. He designed the adapter so he knows it inside out and backwards. I already made my one mistake I'm allowed with the capacitor value...ok...maybe I'm not allowed any. Grrr. Sorry.

Grendel with help you if anyone can. Good luck.

[edit] Wait! I didn't make a mistake. I was just confused. The whole uF/nF,pF thing is confusing as all get out to me. I'm still handing off to Grendel before I make a mistake. ;)

For anyone following along, the last pic is mislabeled. Should be pins 9-15 right to left (not left to right as labeled).

_________________
=================
Run #3 is happening! Please CLICK HERE and sign up if you're interested. A custom 3D printed case is available for V2.0 boards. Run #1 boards will NOT fit (sorry folks). More info is on MY SITE.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:40 am 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:44 am
Posts: 6
Grendel wrote:
A jitter of up to +/- 10 (raw) on the axes is pretty normal for a 3DPro

absolutely, but what happens here is, when for example i want to center it it could end up anywhere on the axis, 0% to 100%. and when i move the joystick around the input jerks after, like several 100's of milliseconds between jumps.

Grendel wrote:
a 3DP draws up to 45mA, calculate the voltage drop via resistance * 0.045 -- if it's > 0.2 it actually could be too flimsy. If the solder joints on the DB15 connector look good, check the other end of the wires as well, it could be an intermittent connection on one of the 4 button lines (D0-D3, these carry the data.)

How are you testing the values ?


I'm testing with a cheapo multimeter. the resistance i measure is 2,1 ohm, that is however also rougly the same value i get when i measure the lines in the breadboard, no matter if two holes next to one another or across the whole board.
The lines doesn't seem intermittent, as far as i can measure.

Edit:
well, i exchanged the flimsy wire for pin D0-D3 to the sturdier wire used on the breadboard, no difference.
I'm starting to think maybe the problem is with the joystick itself?
sadly i dont have a computer with a gameport to test it with...


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2014 8:29 pm 
Offline
DBB Captain
DBB Captain

Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Posts: 988
Bought the parts to build one of these today. Any gotcha's I need to pay attention to?

** edit: guess I should read the posts better, remove previous question that was answered already, doh.


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:50 pm 
Offline
DBB Captain
DBB Captain

Joined: Thu Nov 05, 1998 12:01 pm
Posts: 988
So, I built one of these to use with my 3d pro. I'm using Windows 8.1. When I connect the stick to Windows it detects fine, says status Ok. However when I go into test mode nothing works, none of the axis, none of the buttons, nothing. I've been over the breadboard pictures 10 times, everything looks fine to me. Looks exactly like the picture. Any ideas on what I can check?

edit: now with a picture:<removed>

edit2: So I figured this out. I goofed up and loaded the Teensy 2++ image on my Teensy2. It was detected fine, but didn't register any inputs. I downloaded the correct image and now everything is working great. Thanks!


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:41 am 
Offline
DBB Cadet
DBB Cadet

Joined: Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:07 am
Posts: 2
Hello everyone. I'm new here…

Boring background bit: a couple of years ago I bought a MS Sidewinder 3D Pro Plus (p/n 97462) to replace one I had years ago. However, when I got it found that it was D-sub not USB (I know there are USB ones but I goofed and didn't check hard enough). It's been in storage for all that time while I've been looking for some kind of adapter. I came across this forum a little while ago, I've read most if not all of the posts and I want one of the adapters!

Boring disclaimer bit: from what I've seen on the board the adapter is easy to build. Trouble is, while I use a computer every day and we get along just fine, I'm not a coder of any sort so I don't understand any of that stuff (I have tried, really…) and my soldering is/was lousy at the best of times. I'm also getting on a bit (61) and my hands aren't as steady as they used to be. So I'll be putting my name down on scanjo's order form for when he gets enough interest.

That's assuming that what I want to do is possible. What I have is a Mac Pro that has one dedicated HDD running an installation of XP and an installation of Win7, the former for old(er) games and the latter for new(er) ones. There won't be any problem with the OSes recognising the 3DPP—and I don't think there will be any software probs—but has anyone tried using the 3DPP plus adapter on an Intel Mac of any sort and been successful with it? If so, then I'll go ahead. If it won't work then it would be nice to know. If I'm heading for unexplored territory (unlikely, I think) then I'll be happy to report back.

Thanks for reading…


Top
   
 Post subject: Re: USB Converter for MS Sidewinder 3DPro, PP, and FFP
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:22 pm 
Offline
DBB Ace
DBB Ace
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:01 pm
Posts: 58
Mr. Lion wrote:
Hello everyone. I'm new here…


That's assuming that what I want to do is possible. What I have is a Mac Pro that has one dedicated HDD running an installation of XP and an installation of Win7, the former for old(er) games and the latter for new(er) ones. There won't be any problem with the OSes recognising the 3DPP—and I don't think there will be any software probs—but has anyone tried using the 3DPP plus adapter on an Intel Mac of any sort and been successful with it? If so, then I'll go ahead. If it won't work then it would be nice to know. If I'm heading for unexplored territory (unlikely, I think) then I'll be happy to report back.

Thanks for reading…


The adapter I was making has been tested on versions of Windows from XP through Win8.1 and on Mac OS X. To my knowledge no one has tested while bootcamping on the Mac. I would guess that it will work but can't guarantee it. Maybe someone that has tried it will reply, or someone with the same setup could test it. It's going to be a while before I get fired up and ready to build again so there's time for a reply.

If we don't get confirmation that it works, I will accept a return from you. (you do like being a tester, right?) You would only be out the shipping costs one way then (I'll split it with you. About $3.00).

Scott

_________________
=================
Run #3 is happening! Please CLICK HERE and sign up if you're interested. A custom 3D printed case is available for V2.0 boards. Run #1 boards will NOT fit (sorry folks). More info is on MY SITE.


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 269 posts ]  1 3 4 5 6 7

All times are UTC-06:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  



Descent'rs have piloted these pages
 
The layout and contents contained within this site are © DescentBB.net 1997-2006.
Descent, Descent II are © Parallax Software Corporation.
Descent III is Outrage Entertainment.
Descent is a Trademark of Interplay Productions.

Miner Wars™ is trademark of Keen Software House s. r. o.
.


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group