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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Force Feedback Pro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:28 pm 
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DBB Cadet
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osterac wrote:
r8dhex wrote:
By jittering, I don't mean the shaking from FFB. Even when completely centered, holding the stick steady, no forces. There seems to be noise on all the axes, including throttle and twist, when I cover the photosensor. Take my fingers off the photosensor, and everything quiets down. This happens even on the trunk version I compiled.

When I say the axes use optical sensors I don't mean the one in the handle that senses whether you are gripping the stick. Inside the joystick there is a camera that determines what position the stick and the throttle are in. This video illustrates it quite well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvXyDwlAN8k
Maybe cleaning the lens on that camera or cleaning the tracker LEDs might help?


Yes, I understood what you were saying, and anyway I did swab the axes sensor while I had the stick open. I believe the axes sensor is clean, as the signal is clean and smooth when I move the stick without blocking the grip sensor, or when I disconnect FFB power entirely. However, when I turn on ffb and block the grip sensor, the axes suddenly have some "noise" or jitter even while holding the stick steady at center. The noise only happens when FFB is on.

I might do a video of this to show what is happening.


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Force Feedback Pro
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:08 am 
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r8dhex wrote:
Yes, I understood what you were saying, and anyway I did swab the axes sensor while I had the stick open. I believe the axes sensor is clean, as the signal is clean and smooth when I move the stick without blocking the grip sensor, or when I disconnect FFB power entirely. However, when I turn on ffb and block the grip sensor, the axes suddenly have some "noise" or jitter even while holding the stick steady at center. The noise only happens when FFB is on.
I might do a video of this to show what is happening.

Just tried that on mine... It does the same thing...

I used to have a fully soldered adapter made up for my joystick but it got lost somewhere. Now I am using a breadboard. I have heard of people having strange problems with breadboards that were solved by soldering the adapter on a circuit board. Could be caused by all that extra wiring causing resistance that is not accounted for in the original design.


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Force Feedback Pro
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:53 pm 
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osterac wrote:
r8dhex wrote:
Yes, I understood what you were saying, and anyway I did swab the axes sensor while I had the stick open. I believe the axes sensor is clean, as the signal is clean and smooth when I move the stick without blocking the grip sensor, or when I disconnect FFB power entirely. However, when I turn on ffb and block the grip sensor, the axes suddenly have some "noise" or jitter even while holding the stick steady at center. The noise only happens when FFB is on.
I might do a video of this to show what is happening.

Just tried that on mine... It does the same thing...

I used to have a fully soldered adapter made up for my joystick but it got lost somewhere. Now I am using a breadboard. I have heard of people having strange problems with breadboards that were solved by soldering the adapter on a circuit board. Could be caused by all that extra wiring causing resistance that is not accounted for in the original design.


That may be my problem, I have it on a breadboard. Plus, the wires going into the joystick mainboard are just jammed into the existing header. A more permanent solution for me may be to desolder the header, and solder my wires on to the mainboard itself. After successfully soldering the header pins on the teensy, and replacing some of the switches on the grip, I'm pretty confident now that I can handle the mainboard. That's something I couldn't have said before I started.


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Force Feedback Pro
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:32 pm 
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So things are stalled on the hardware side, I'm still waiting for replacement switches and other parts to arrive.

In the meantime, I've played around with the code, and incorporated jaffa225man's fix to enable shift. I also added 16 extra buttons, so I can connect up to 8 switches to the remaining pins on the teensy. The 8 extra buttons are also shift-able.

I've forked the github repo, and pushed my changes to my repo. I'm not sure that everyone wants these changes, so I'll keep them as separate for now.

If anyone's interested, you can get the code from the links below. You'll have to compile them yourself though.

This one has the original 16 buttons, but with shift enabled
https://github.com/r8dhex/adapt-ffb-joy ... hiftEnable

This one has shift enabled, plus 16 more buttons
https://github.com/r8dhex/adapt-ffb-joy ... oreButtons

credit goes to the original developers, and to jaffa225man for the shift-patch.


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Force Feedback Pro
PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:12 pm 
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Hi all,

does anyone know how to turn on serial debugging in the code?

so far I've been looking in debug.c, I've set
Code:
volatile uint8_t gDebugMode = 4;
but nothing shows up in the serial terminal. I even tried LogTextLf() to print something from the main loop, but nothing prints.

EDIT: nevermind, I figured it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Force Feedback Pro
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:36 pm 
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osterac wrote:
FYI - you have to be gripping the stick for force feedback to work - there is a proximity sensor in the handle
... Unless you've modified it. I put in a switch to cut off the IR emitter, so when I flip the switch to the "override" position, the stick thinks there's always someone holding it. I occasionally find that useful in Microsoft Flight Simulator. Some people get a similar result on a more temporary basis by putting opaque tape over one of the sensor holes.

One should be careful though, because depending on the program running and the force effects being commanded, with the grip sensor overridden sometimes the stick can thrash around fairly violently and could damage itself if one is careless.


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Force Feedback Pro
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:01 pm 
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Location: California
Scotophor wrote:
with the grip sensor overridden sometimes the stick can thrash around fairly violently and could damage itself if one is careless.

It's true! I was sending several commands at once to the stick with the sensors blocked to demonstrate its capabilities and it would have shook itself off the desk if I hadn't stopped it.


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Force Feedback Pro
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:46 am 
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DBB Cadet
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Posts: 1
Hi,

I was able to produce FFB joystick using stm32f4 disc1 board. With CubeMX's customhid configuration i built USB stack.
I used the report descriptor posted by Grendel on pg. 1 of this thread.

I was really struggling with joystick being recognized by DirectInput. Microchip users chinzei and ulao found a solution by deleting your device's entry under
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\MediaProperties\PrivateProperties\Joystick\OEM
http://www.microchip.com/forums/m487478.aspx?print=true

But in my case i had to delete device's entry under
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\MediaProperties\PrivateProperties\Joystick\OEM
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/75621- ... arting-LFS

BR telesimke


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Force Feedback Pro
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 12:06 am 
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On the main webpage of the project it says that it has been tested on War Thunder. Does anyone have any information on who tested it. It isn't working for me, but the joystick works using the ForceText.exe program.


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Force Feedback Pro
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:14 am 
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HackNFly wrote:
On the main webpage of the project it says that it has been tested on War Thunder. Does anyone have any information on who tested it. It isn't working for me, but the joystick works using the ForceText.exe program.


I've tested on WT, linux and windows. ForceFeedback doesn't seem to work. I have no idea how to make it work. I can confirm that ForceFeedback works on my stick using DCS World.


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Force Feedback Pro
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 12:45 pm 
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DBB Cadet
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Scanjo wrote:
Cal and Skoo are hard at work and making great progress. My question to you is, would you rather they spend their time making it work or spend their time here posting to us? They're in the middle of figuring out all the FFB commands. Cal has referred to this as "grunt work" and it just takes time. They also want to add some features so they're making sure it all fits together.

Patience grasshopper... ;)


Hi there,

hopefully someone is still on this thread, since the last time something was posted about the reverse engineering of the FFB Wheel in which the name Cal was mentioned, is way back in 2014.
I am new to this thread, it took me two hours to read all messages. I came to this thread, because I found my son's MS FFB Wheel when cleaning his room. He gave it (back) to me, because he does not have a desktop with a gameport anymore. Neither do I, so I started Googling, and landed in this thread.
But unfortunately I cannot find any response by Cal, so I wonder if this project is still going on? If so, I would like to read from it. If not, I can throw away my FFB Wheel, I suppose.
Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Force Feedback Pro
PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:21 pm 
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I am still able to use my FFB Pro joystick with Windows 7. But now that Windows 10 is out, I can't seem to let the OS find it. Is there anything anyone else has done?


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Force Feedback Pro
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:51 am
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Hi guys

I hope you can help me....

I've built the adapter to reactivate my old Sidewinder FF Pro (FCC ID: C3KJ4), but I don't get any FF...

Board is equiped with a teensy2 (no ++)
All wires, connections and resistors checked, no short circuit, no dead wires or connections.
Tested with the optional capacitators and without them.
Firmware is the 'adaptffbjoy-r54.hex' (I've tried '3DPro32u4-10.hex', too)
Joystick is recognized as a 'LUFA Joystick wFFB' and all buttons and axis are working.
But I get no FF at all (only the basic 'centering force' of the stick)...

'fedit.exe' and 'FFConst.exe' allready tried to check FF.
With the '3dPro' hex file it is not recognizes ad a joystick supporting FF
(but that's what I've read in the descriptions), with the 'adaptffbjoy-r54.hex' it is supported.

Whenever a FF command is sent the teensy shows me a short 'blink'
but nothing happens to the stick...
Same with games supporting FF. Teensy is blinking, but nothing else hapens.

I#ve also tried to install the unsigned 'Com Port Driver' (working after forcing Win8.1 64 to accept unsigned drivers)
No changes...

My multimeter sais that the midi out has about 5v output, so power is presend (but no readable changes during midi actions).

Any Idea? Or is my joystick dead (or not compatible)

Deciman


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Force Feedback Pro
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:31 am 
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Deciman wrote:
Hi guys
I've built the adapter to reactivate my old Sidewinder FF Pro (FCC ID: C3KJ4), but I don't get any FF...


Just quoting my own posting...

Finally I've got it woking..

I've
- Installed the com port drivers from teensy (don't know if that was one of the reasons or not)
- tried several hex files
- rebooted firmware several times
- hotplugged joystick several times (with and without power plugged to the stick)

And suddenly something felt different... The 'basic' force from the stick was missing
and it was reacting to the FF test programms....

I think there are several issues...
- First the com port.. Is seems that it is loaded but not started allways.
- Then the hex file. I've managed to get my stick working with only one file that I found here as an attachment
(adaptffbjoy-shift-beta-hex-files.zip -> adaptffbjoy-shift-svn-2014-11-08-beta.hex)
All other hex files were not working at my present testing state.
- Most times (but not allways) it helps to plug the stick in WITHOUT power connected, wait until windows got is and then connect power.

I've also figured out that it makes no difference wether the optional capacitators are built or not.
FF works without them, too (if it works...)

Hope it helps...

Deciman

Edit: Working with the same config on Win7 32, too.
Here I've installed the com port drivers from the adaptffb-master package...
So it seems to make no difference which driver is used. Teensy or the one from the package. Both are working...


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Force Feedback Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:29 pm 
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r8dhex wrote:
osterac wrote:
r8dhex wrote:
The trigger switch is different, and I wasn't able to replace it yet.

...

I noticed that axes have some jittering with FFB on. It's noticeable when you alternately cover/uncover the IR sensor on the grip. Could this be a wiring issue, interference perhaps?


You might try some contact cleaner on the trigger switch.

By jittering, you you mean that the stick waggles from side to side trying to center itself? Mine does this too sometimes, mostly during tests - less so in games. Depends on your spring center adjustments in your test software and can get worse if you have effects like friction, damping, and/or grooves enabled. I know this stick uses optical sensors for the axes - if those are dirty perhaps cleaning them or just blowing them out with some canned air might help...


Actually, the trigger finally died, after I put the grip back. No amount of pressure will work. I found the part numbers for those switches and I'm trying to order them (cheaply, intl shipping costs more than the parts).

By jittering, I don't mean the shaking from FFB. Even when completely centered, holding the stick steady, no forces. There seems to be noise on all the axes, including throttle and twist, when I cover the photosensor. Take my fingers off the photosensor, and everything quiets down. This happens even on the trunk version I compiled.


I was wondering if anyone could point me to the part number for the replacement trigger buttons?

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Force Feedback Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:43 pm 
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http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Omron/B3M-6009/

Trigger switch, works in 3dpro, precision pro, force feedback, precision 2, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Reverse Engineering the Force Feedback Pro
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:06 pm 
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Krom wrote:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Omron/B3M-6009/

Trigger switch, works in 3dpro, precision pro, force feedback, precision 2, etc.


Thanks for the quick reply! Glad to see there is still interest.


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