Russia strikes back...

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:43 pm

After the emberassment of Kosovar independence and the encroachment of NATO into the former Soviet Union, Russia has decided to attack Georgia and perhaps invade after Georgia decided to retake South Ossetia in its own borders. Putin (the real man in charge in Russia) has assasinated people outside his country and in Britain brazenly. If we don't watch our step, WWIII might be around the corner.

Summary

Russian armor has reportedly made it through the Roki Tunnel into South Ossetia, a critical move to secure the south end and protect the key logistical route into the breakaway territory. And Russia has still other options for moving its forces in.

A large formation of Russian armor reportedly has emerged on the south side of the two-lane Roki Tunnel, securing a vital logistical link to the breakaway Georgian territory of South Ossetia. Had Georgian troops been able to reach the tunnel, Moscow would have sent its armor down the center of the tunnel at great risk. The tunnel was a key chokepoint that could have been quickly destroyed or blocked. Now Russian troops are likely guarding it very closely as their logistical lifeline.

Further Russian reinforcements might flow into Georgia’s other breakaway region of Abkhazia, to the west. Though the territories are not contiguous, the Georgian military is not exactly in a position to challenge columns of Russian armor. A major railroad from Russia runs into Georgia through Abkhazia. Russian railroad troops left the territory recently, after completing repairs on the line. This could be an important link for more Russian reinforcements of tanks and armored vehicles from further afield — as well as a potential line of supply for fuel, ammunition, parts and food. While such forces could not reach South Ossetia, they would allow Russia to open a two-front war with Georgia should Moscow decide to do so.

And that is not Russia’s only option. The Russian military has the largest airborne formations in the world. Though these forces are difficult to sustain only by air and have a very light vehicle footprint, they are some of Russia’s most well-equipped and well-trained. Doctrinally, Russia has deployed these forces in the past as the vanguard of operations, but only after other military units had begun moving along the ground to secure a line of supply back to Russian territory. If Russian airborne units could link up with established Russian supply chains in Abkhazia or South Ossetia, they could be an important force multiplier.

But there are three airfields to the east of Tbilisi, including the capital’s international airport. At least two appear to be in serviceable condition, and all three boast runways in excess of 8,000 feet — plenty of room for Russian Il-76 Candid transports to land heavily laden.

Another airfield to the south of the capital at Marneuli has reportedly had its runway bombed by Russian fighters and might be unserviceable. The goal of this strike was almost certainly to take Georgia’s small air force out of the equation. In the past day, Georgia’s handful of only five to seven combat-capable Su-25 “Frogfoot” close air support aircraft (notoriously hated by the Afghan Mujahideen) have been spotted firing rockets at targets in South Ossetia. However, that runway was both shorter and farther from Tbilisi’s city center.

Ultimately, the runways to the east could also be used by U.S. C-17s and C-130s operating from Incirlik Air Base in Turkey. While Washington is hardly interested in getting entangled in this mess, some of its personnel might have been killed in a reported Russian airstrike on the base at Vaziani, where both Georgian and U.S. troops are stationed.

As a major logistical hub, Incirlik would leave U.S. transports and fighter aircraft well positioned near Georgia (contingent on Turkish acquiescence to such an operation). But what exactly they would accomplish is a more difficult question. U.S. F-16s are regularly deployed to the base and could quickly be equipped for strikes or combat air patrols. Additional fighters might be redeployed from Iraq if the necessity arose (but would almost certainly not operate from there directly).

But where the United States would find troops to fill its transports is unclear. The new MV-22 tiltrotor Ospreys currently deployed in Iraq could ferry U.S. Marines from the USS Peleliu (LHA-5) Expeditionary Strike Group currently with the Fifth Fleet to Tbilisi directly, or simply ashore to other transports. (It would probably take the strike group at least five days to get to the Georgian coast.) The embarked Marine Expeditionary Unit is composed of a heavily reinforced and mobile infantry battalion. But beyond that small contingent, Washington would be hard-pressed to find available ground troops.

www.stratfor.com

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:47 pm

Putin Says `War Has Started,' Georgia Claims Invasion (Update1)

By Henry Meyer and Ryan Chilcote

Aug. 8 (Bloomberg) — Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said ``war has started in the breakaway region of South Ossetia while Georgia accused Russia of ``a well-planned invasion and appealed to world leaders for help.

Russian ``volunteers'' are pouring over the border to help defend South Ossetia from Georgian forces, Putin told U.S. President George W. Bush in Beijing today, according to Putin spokesman Dmitry Peskov.

Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili accused Russia of ``full-blown military aggression after civilians died in aerial bombings and wide-spread fighting in and around the disputed region. The country of 4.6 million people is fighting ``to secure its borders, Saakashvili told Bloomberg Television.

The U.S., European Union and NATO all called on both sides to end hostilities. The ruble dropped the most against the dollar in 8 1/2 years and Russian stocks tumbled today on concern the conflict will worsen.

South Ossetia, which has a population of about 70,000 and is less than half the size of Kosovo, broke away from Georgia in the early 1990s and now is a de facto independent state with Russian peacekeepers and economic support. Georgia, a U.S. ally that wants to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, accuses Russia of stoking tensions in South Ossetia and another separatist region, Abkhazia.

``We will not allow the death of our compatriots to go unpunished, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, 42, told state television after reports that Georgian troops had shelled a Russian barracks and checkpoint and killed soldiers. ``The guilty will get the punishment they deserve.

`Very Hot'

Saakashvili, 40, said Russia amassed troops for months on its northern border before fighter jets entered Georgian airspace overnight and bombed the towns of Gori and Kareli near South Ossetia. The Russian government earlier denied bombing and accused Georgia of ``unleashing a dirty, reckless scheme.''

``There are so many claims and counter-claims that it's impossible to know who started it, said James Nixey, manager of the Russia and Eurasia Program at the Royal Institute of International Affairs, a research institute based in London. ``Both sides have been antagonistic and easy to antagonize. It's a cold war that's suddenly gotten very hot.

Georgia last month increased the size of its military to 37,000 soldiers and today Saakashvili called up reservists and urged the nation to defend ``every meter'' of land. Russia has a standing army of about 1.1 million.

Tanks, Warplanes

Agence France-Press reported Russian tanks heading over the border to South Ossetia from the Russian region of North Ossetia at about 3:30 p.m. Moscow time. Interfax reported at about the same time that Russian warplanes were bombing Georgian targets.

``Fighting continues,'' Russian Major General Marat Kulakhmetov, commander of Russia's peacekeeping forces in South Ossetia, said by mobile phone. The peacekeepers have suffered casualties, although it's too early to say how many, he said.

Georgia is a key link in a U.S.-backed ``southern energy corridor'' that links the Caspian Sea region with world markets, bypassing Russia, the world's biggest energy producer. Two pipelines pass through the country linking Azerbaijan and Turkey.

The BP Plc-led Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline, which has been closed since Aug. 5 due to an explosion in Turkey, runs about 100 kilometers south of the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali.

The most recent violence in the region erupted on Aug. 1, when South Ossetia said Georgian shelling of the regional capital Tskhinvali claimed six lives. Georgia said South Ossetian forces sparked the fighting.

``The conflict might be short and hot, but my sense is that neither party wants a prolonged conflict,'' said Michael Denison, associate fellow at London-based research group Chatham House and a professor of international security at the University of Leeds.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:59 pm

ya know I keep coming back to the old saying

\"People in glass houses.........\"

with what we are doing right now (Iraq,Afghanistan) do you REALLY think Russia give a SH!T about what we say???

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:58 pm

Georgia is a key link in a U.S.-backed ``southern energy corridor'' that links the Caspian Sea region with world markets, bypassing Russia, the world's biggest energy producer. Two pipelines pass through the country linking Azerbaijan and Turkey.

Strange isn't it but whenever there is major trouble in the world these days there seems to be black goo at the bottom of it.

TechPro · Post by **TechPro** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:18 pm

That's it! Ban the black goo!

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:51 pm

TechPro wrote:That's it! Ban the black goo!

Oh I see, hatin' on the black man, is it? How about we put a ban on the white goo? Lets see if that stops war, huh!?!!?!

This post was meant for sarcastic purposes only, and is not meant to be taken seriously.

Cuda68 · Post by **Cuda68** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:57 pm

There's more to it than black goo. Russia has taken a good amount of crap of the U.S and EU along with NATO. I think Bush's missile defense system was a big part of it also. Russia wants/is saying back off or a price will be paid. They have had there chain yanked once to many times.

MD-1118 · Post by **MD-1118** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:14 pm

Maybe we need to pay a price to wake us up. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think this country has lost its objectivity. In my eyes, nothing is more important than being objective.

Cuda68 · Post by **Cuda68** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:44 pm

MD-1118 wrote:Maybe we need to pay a price to wake us up. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think this country has lost its objectivity. In my eyes, nothing is more important than being objective.

Agreed %100 - Big business/Wall Street runs this country and not the people. Greed is running rampant and turning everything into a shambles.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:57 pm

If a tree falls down in the Amazon…it must be the US’s fault.

MD-1118 · Post by **MD-1118** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:07 pm

Spidey wrote:If a tree falls down in the Amazon…it must be the US’s fault.

Sometimes it is... but the point is, if that tree falling plays a major factor in this country's wakeup call, then yes. It is the US's fault, if for no other reason than something needs to be our fault. The majority of the US is populated by fat, ignorant, greedy, inconsiderate bass turds who think that they're God's chosen people and as such immune from the filth and squalor of the world. It makes me sick. I can't say what I really think would help the US for obvious reasons, but some objectivity would go a long way.

Also, after some thought, I hereby declare myself to be simply an inhabitant of Earth, residing in the southeastern portion of the northwestern hemisphere... not an American citizen. Being American isn't what it used to be. I'd better shut up now before I speak my mind and say something I shouldn't.

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:03 am

MD-1118 wrote:
Spidey wrote:If a tree falls down in the Amazon…it must be the US’s fault.
Sometimes it is... but the point is, if that tree falling plays a major factor in this country's wakeup call, then yes. It is the US's fault, if for no other reason than something needs to be our fault. The majority of the US is populated by fat, ignorant, greedy, inconsiderate bass turds who think that they're God's chosen people and as such immune from the filth and squalor of the world. It makes me sick. I can't say what I really think would help the US for obvious reasons, but some objectivity would go a long way.

Also, after some thought, I hereby declare myself to be simply an inhabitant of Earth, residing in the southeastern portion of the northwestern hemisphere... not an American citizen. Being American isn't what it used to be. I'd better shut up now before I speak my mind and say something I shouldn't.

I'm a Saint Petersburgian, proud as can be! Homeland of wikipedia! Hail our glorious flag of doom and destruction!

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:22 am

Georgia claims Russian bomb_
Russia and Georgia at full-scale war as breakaway South Ossetia becomes battlefield

DEBKAfile Special Report

August 9, 2008, 12:21 PM (GMT+02:00)

Latest developments Saturday, Aug. 9, 08

- Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili asks parliament to declared martial law.

- All men aged 18-50 called to reserve duty as Georgia recalls 1,000 troops from Iraq.

- Government institutions in Georgian capital of Tbilisi are evacuated as the president declares a state of war.

- Georgian town of Gori badly hit by Russian fighters.

- Russian general confirms two of its jets were shot down. Georgia claims one pilot was captured.

- Units of Russian paratroopers have “completely liberated” the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali ---

- Russian bombers earlier devastated a Tskhinvali apartment block killing five people.

- Local hospitals are overflowing with casualties. The region’s power, water and telephones are cut off.

- 30,000 refugees have fled the embattled region into Russia.

- Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov warned Georgia’s arms suppliers they will be held accountable for the South Ossetia situation.

DEBKAfile’s sources say this is directed at the United States and Israel.

- The two-day death in South Ossetia combat is estimated at 1,600.

- Russian jets struck Georgia’s Black Sea port of Poti, hitting container tanks, a naval base and military logistical center near a major pipeline from Baku.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:09 am

Gosh, where are all the Russian war protesters? Where are all the heart rending pics of dead women and children. Where are the lampoon pics showing Putin riding a fearsomely fanged bear with a harness of missiles and machine guns blasting away at innocent Georgian's? Come on MSNBC, CNN do your thing. Or will the newsy play the angle like it is really George Bush's fault once again....just like some of you are intimating.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:19 am

In reality, to be consistent, we should support Russia in it's efforts to assure the independence of South Ossetia from the Georgian government's oppression of the ethnic Russian majority that lives there. That was our position in Kosovo and why should we change now? Russia reports that there was ethnic cleansing of the area taking place which forced them to act to protect their citizens.

By the way Woodchip. The reason none of the things you are asking about are seen on TV is that there are no American troops involved and so like most things that don't directly involve the U.S. they are deemed barely newsworthy by your media. The only reason you hear of it at all is that some of your citizens think this is taking place in the southern U.S. so their ears perk up a bit and that little bit of attention might sell another bag of Cheetos.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:02 pm

LOL, Ford, I watched a half hour report on the same night the fighting broke out!

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:41 pm

Did you buy any Cheetos.

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:48 pm

If we don't watch our step, WWIII might be around the corner.

The thing is, we help out Georgia, and Russia will not take kindly to our intervention, which could cause WWIII. I think it would be wrong to let Georgia be overran by the Russians, as we have no idea what they would do next...

My question is, what should we do about the, what I would call, war? Of course ideally we should try diplomacy; see what each side wants and try to negotiate, but what if that fails? Stay neutral, or help out? Try to get NATO/EU to help out? Wether you agree or disagree with the \"War on Terror\", we have few soldiers to spare for Iraq and Afghanistan, let alone a war in Europe...

(I assume we would support Georgia, as Russia isn't exactly our greatest friend)

Cuda68 · Post by **Cuda68** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:02 pm

Now how can we possibly go to war in Georgia or help them in any way when we object so strongly to the war in the middle east, and those fools have been killing and attacking us for over 30 years. So the woosie Democrats and woosie nations say OH NO its an unjust war. We should let them kill us at will. What a crock that anyone should believe we should help another country just because they got an arse woopin.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:06 pm

Cuda68: If you want to know why anyone thinks the U.S. should help out Georgia have a look again at that quote I picked out of the article.

Georgia is a key link in a U.S.-backed ``southern energy corridor'' that links the Caspian Sea region with world markets, bypassing Russia, the world's biggest energy producer. Two pipelines pass through the country linking Azerbaijan and Turkey.

You guys are already involved and who knows what was promised in the back rooms should this very thing occur. The leader of Georgia also speaks like membership in NATO is a done deal. If NATO goes in then the U.S. is committed. (So is Canada)

That's the problem with involving yourselves in the politics of other countries. It can come back and bite you in the ass.

Cuda68 · Post by **Cuda68** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:26 pm

Oh I agree with what you say. But the tree huggin liberals will be up in arms. They wont even support a war where we are being killed left and right over a 30 year period of time. I just don't see any support for another war right now.

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:20 pm

Cuda68: The \"Middle East\" is NOT a country, it's an area on a map. This country would be stupid to go to war with a region of a map.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:15 pm

Rather interesting that Tom Clancy wrote several scenarios around this very region and about similar circumstances.

Spidey · Post by **Spidey** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:18 pm

Dakatsu wrote:Cuda68: The "Middle East" is NOT a country, it's an area on a map. This country would be stupid to go to war with a region of a map.

Huh? Read again what he said, a little more carefully this time.

Cuda68 · Post by **Cuda68** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:29 am

Dakatsu wrote:Cuda68: The "Middle East" is NOT a country, it's an area on a map. This country would be stupid to go to war with a region of a map.

I do understand that. I was referring to two wars we are already in with very little public support, in two different country's in that region. I was trying not to type to much since I suck at typing

EDIT:

Over a very long period of time the various nations of the middle east have done the following to the U.S. alone, this does not include what they have done to other nations:

On November 4, 1979, Islamic Iranian's stormed US Embassy Tehran and took 66 Americans hostage.

On April 18, 1983, the Islamic Hezbollah employed a suicide bomber to truck-bomb US Embassy Beirut. Sixty-three people were killed.

On October 23, 1983, an Islamic suicide bomber truck-bombed the US Marine Corps Barracks at the Beirut International Airport. Two hundred twenty Marines and 21 members of other US military services were killed.

On December 12, 1983, a 25 year old Islamic Iraqi enemy soldier belonging to the Islamic Iranian Dawa Group truck-bombed US Embassy Kuwait, seriously damaging the chancery and destroying the administrative annex, killing five, injuring 80. There was no American retaliation.

On March 16, 1984, Islamic Shiite's abducted US Embassy Beirut CIA Station Chief Lt. Col. William Buckley, USA, the CIA's top terrorism expert. In October 1985, the CIA assessed that Buckley had been taken to Islamic Iran by way of Islamic Syria and tortured to death.

On September 20, 1984, Islamic Shiite's car-bombed the US Embassy annex in east Beirut, killing 14 and injuring 57, including the US and British ambassadors and 19 other Americans. There was no American retaliation.

On December 21, 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 exploded over Scotland, killing all 259 aboard and 11 on the ground. Of the 270 passengers, 189 were Americans.

On February 26, 1993, a massive explosion occurred in the public parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people were killed, all Americans, with more than 1,000 injured. A truck-bomb was the cause. Six Islamic conspirators were convicted of the crime.

1993 - An Islamic cell operating in New York City planned to blow up simultaneously the Holland and Lincoln Tunnels, the George Washington Bridge, the UN, and the New York FBI office in lower Manhattan, all in New York City.

On April 14, 1993 the Islamic Iraqi intelligence service attempted to assassinate former US President George Bush during a visit to Kuwait.

In Late 1994, enemy Islamic forces operating in the Philippines were building bombs they planned to place and remotely detonate on twelve US carrier jumbo jets in a single 48-hour period as they flew from the Far East to the US.

On June 25, 1996, Islamic forces truck-bombed part of the Khobar Towers housing complex at the King Abdul Aziz Air Base in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. The explosion occurred near building #131, an eight-story building used mostly by US Air Force personnel. Nineteen US servicemen and one Saudi were killed, with 372 injured.

On August 7, 1998, the US Embassy Nairobi was truck-bombed. Two hundred thirteen people were killed, more than 4,000 injured.

On August 7, 1998, the US Embassy Dar es Salaam was truck-bombed, within five minutes of the Nairobi bombing mentioned above. Eleven died and 85 were injured.

On December 14, 1999, an Islamic Algerian soldier was arrested while crossing from Canada into Washington State with 130 pounds of explosive chemicals and four homemade timing devices. His plan was to detonate a bomb at Los Angeles International Airport on the evening of December 31, 1999.

On January 3, 2000 Islamic suicide bombers attempted an attack against the USS The Sullivans in port at Aden, Yemen.

On October 12, 2000, an explosion occurred on the port side of the destroyer USS Cole while moored in the harbor of Aden, Yemen.

9/11/2001 - Four Islamic enemy air raids were conducted against American targets in New York and Washington, DC, killing close to 3,000 people, destroying the World Trade Towers, and severely damaging the Pentagon. The air raids were conducted employing hi-jacked US air carriers. One air raid did not reach its target in Washington, thwarted by the passengers.

Now after all this, the liberal woosies say we are there only for oil and the war is unjust. I ask you, how do we deal with the democrats and liberals on Georgia.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:31 am

Cuda68: How do any of those incidents relate to the current conflict in Georgia? How does any part of The War On Terror relate to Georgia? There are real parallels between Georgia/South Osstia and Serbia/Kosovo but no connection whatsoever with international terrorism. The only reason the U.S. is involved is you were helping your allies secure oil supplies that bypassed Russia and so you supported Georgia's separation from Russia, encouraged her ambitions to join NATO and armed her forces.

Cuda68 · Post by **Cuda68** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:18 am

OK - Once again, Listen carefully now, I said the democrats and liberals will object and the U.S. will do nothing. I backed it up with whats going on in the middle east and how they (the democrats and liberals) claim its an unjust war when its very justified.

Now I hope thats clear enough for you - or are you a democrat/liberal just plying stupid about what I am saying?

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:29 pm

I don't disagree with your conclusion I just don't really see the connection. Whatever.

Cuda68 · Post by **Cuda68** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:37 pm

The connection in comparing the two.

Georgia is without a doubt over oil interests, they claim oil is why we are fighting in the middle east, they are saying that because we are there (the middle east} over oil it is an unjust war, I would assume since Georgia is without a doubt over oil the same argument will be made to keep us out regardless if we have obligations to Georgia.

Kyouryuu · Post by **Kyouryuu** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:44 pm

Cuda68 wrote:Now I hope thats clear enough for you - or are you a democrat/liberal just plying stupid about what I am saying?

Heaven forbid.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:28 pm

Okay that's a little clearer but it makes it seem like you think the U.S. should get involved in a shooting war in Georgia because it would be a \"just\" war. That's not right is it?

Cuda68 · Post by **Cuda68** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:37 pm

Ford Prefect wrote:Okay that's a little clearer but it makes it seem like you think the U.S. should get involved in a shooting war in Georgia because it would be a "just" war. That's not right is it?

Have you read what I said or do you just make it up as you go?

I said, and I quote myself:

Now how can we possibly go to war in Georgia or help them in any way when we object so strongly to the war in the middle east, and those fools have been killing and attacking us for over 30 years. So the woosie Democrats and woosie nations say OH NO its an unjust war. We should let them kill us at will. What a crock that anyone should believe we should help another country just because they got an arse woopin.

Which was in responce to this:

The thing is, we help out Georgia, and Russia will not take kindly to our intervention, which could cause WWIII. I think it would be wrong to let Georgia be overran by the Russians, as we have no idea what they would do next...

My question is, what should we do about the, what I would call, war? Of course ideally we should try diplomacy; see what each side wants and try to negotiate, but what if that fails? Stay neutral, or help out? Try to get NATO/EU to help out? Wether you agree or disagree with the "War on Terror", we have few soldiers to spare for Iraq and Afghanistan, let alone a war in Europe...

(I assume we would support Georgia, as Russia isn't exactly our greatest friend)

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:03 pm

Firstly, we are fighting two wars in the Middle east - Afghanistan, and Iraq. The Afgan war was just as it was to clear the government of Taliban control, but Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism, and I don't agree with it.

The events in Georgia and South Ossetia is an actual military conflict, between militaries of two distinct nations.

No nation in the middle east has \"attacked\" us. All those examples you gave were from terrorists, and are not members of any military of any country in the middle east. We attacked Afghanistan due to it being ruled by the Taliban, but just because some terrorists from UAE try to blow up a building, doesn't mean we should bomb the UAE. If a terrorist cell from Canada blew up Sears Tower, we wouldn't go to war with Canada, would we?

Cuda68 · Post by **Cuda68** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:30 pm

Dakatsu wrote:Firstly, we are fighting two wars in the Middle east - Afghanistan, and Iraq. The Afgan war was just as it was to clear the government of Taliban control, but Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism, and I don't agree with it.

The events in Georgia and South Ossetia is an actual military conflict, between militaries of two distinct nations.

No nation in the middle east has "attacked" us. All those examples you gave were from terrorists, and are not members of any military of any country in the middle east. We attacked Afghanistan due to it being ruled by the Taliban, but just because some terrorists from UAE try to blow up a building, doesn't mean we should bomb the UAE. If a terrorist cell from Canada blew up Sears Tower, we wouldn't go to war with Canada, would we?

Every islamic country hailed these terrorists as hero's and martyrs, If they choose to condone the attack and refuse to prosecute like the middle east did - heck yea
I would say bring the neutron bombs back and introduce them to one another. 30 years of no action by the middle east countrys - they got what they deserve. Perhaps they will give more thought to wanton and celebrated murder because they where non-muslims.

There jahadists are there military.

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:46 pm

So I'll quote you too:

Now how can we possibly go to war in Georgia or help them in any way when we object so strongly to the war in the middle east, and those fools have been killing and attacking us for over 30 years. So the woosie Democrats and woosie nations say OH NO its an unjust war. We should let them kill us at will. What a crock that anyone should believe we should help another country just because they got an arse woopin.

First you say \"we object so strongly\" and then it is the \"woosie\" ones that object.
Do you object or not? (sorry I don't follow your posts enough to know your attitudes toward the war in Iraq)
If the U.S. had the resources at this time would you support an intervention?

Cuda68 · Post by **Cuda68** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:56 pm

Your right, my use of the word we is mis-leading. I was using it to refer to the U.S. as a nation not a particular party.

As for the middle east conflicts - An absolute yes to both. Check my profile for my thoughts on that.

For Georgia, no. The U.S. / EU and NATO has made Russia very paranoid especially with Bush pushing for the defensive missiles right on the Russia border. Russia making a point somewhere, in my mind was a given.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:16 pm

I just hope Russia doesn't try to assimilate Georgia citing security reasons in hopes of recreating another USSR. I don't trust Putin and he IS in charge.

Bee

Cuda68 · Post by **Cuda68** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:39 am

Looks like the Russians just might at that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7554507.stm

Cuda68 · Post by **Cuda68** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:32 am

Interesting tid bit - Violence erupted in South Ossetia late last week when Georgia launched an overnight assault on the territory.

And this from the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7554507.stm

If Georgia started it I would think they are on there own anyway - regardless of any NATO agreement. It looks kinda murky though since South Ossetia is part of Georgia.
Also we are building up our navel fleet south of Iran.

Getting creepy

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:44 am

Nice bit of analysis here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7553390.stm
I especially like the advice:

Do not punch a bear on the nose unless it is tied down.

BTW Cuda68 thanks for the clear up.

Russia strikes back...

Russia strikes back...

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