Hostility towards veterans...

[Nightshade]

It's amazing to see people that are so hostile to the display of any support or reference to veterans that they single out supporters or veterans themselves for persecution- of any kind. It can be a rude remark- nasty expression or worse.

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/HOA_As ... ove_Bumper

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,522 ... latestnews

Homeowners Association Threatens to Tow Vietnam Veteran's Car Over Marines Decals

Thursday, May 28, 2009

A disabled Vietnam veteran in Dallas with more than 14 years of service in the Marines is under attack by a homeowners association, MyFOXDFW.com reports.

Frank Larison's offense: showing his support for the Marines by displaying seven decals on his vehicle.

\"To me, it's being patriotic, and it shows that I served,\" Larison told the FOX affiliate.

The board of The Woodlands II on The Creek says the decals violate the rules of the homeowners association, which deems them advertisements — even though the TV station spotted other residents' vehicles with bumper stickers for political parties, health causes and other non-commercial interests.

Larison has lived there for eight years. Now, he has been told in a letter to cover or get rid of the decals or his car will be towed and he could be fined $50 if it happens again, according to the report.

It may not come to that. The TV station wasn't able to reach top officials at the residential community, though one board member interviewed seemed surprised that Larimore was being singled out.

\"I didn't know anything about this. I haven't seen this,\" board member Art Bradford told the TV station. \"I will be looking into it.\"

[TechPro]

Homeowner Associations are evil and should be abolished.

[DCrazy]

It's amazing to see people that are so hostile to the display of any support or reference to veterans that they single out supporters or veterans themselves for persecution- of any kind. It can be a rude remark- nasty expression or worse.

This has nothing to do with the fact that the guy is a vet. It's an HOA. HOAs do incredibly stupid things on a minute-by-minute basis. I personally think they're unconscionable and should be abolished.

The reason the Constitution refers to "inalienable" rights is because it wants to make sure that under no circumstances can anyone convince or force you to waive them. You cannot waive your right to free speech, for example. (You might violate a clause in your sponsorship contract with Nike if you start wearing Reeboks on the NBA court, but they cannot enjoin you from saying things, just invoke the penalty on the contract.) Likewise, it's my ★■◆● land, I want to do with it what I want to do with it.

[Ferno]

tow the car if the stickers aren't removed?

okay. this struck a chord with me that I didn't think could be hit on.

this guy has every right in the world to display whatever bumper sticker he wants and his homeowner's association will tow his car.. because they don't like what's displayed?

If I was that guy, I'd be canceling my membership and building a remotely operated gate.

they have no right to come on and take his property because they don't agree with what's said. Even if they somehow towed the car, he could nail them for tresspass and grand theft auto. And it would be up to the homeowner's association to prove otherwise.

I hope this guy fights the HOA tooth and nail.

[woodchip]

Heh, too bad most of you weren't around when the anti-war types were spitting on troops coming back from Vietnam.

In this case, the decals are not affixed to the property and as such should not come under HOA rules. What would the HOA do next? Tell the guys friends that they could not have similar stickers on their cars when they came to visit? I would like to read the rule that the numbnuts extrapolated from. Can you have no stickers or would \"Bring the Troops Home Now!\" stickers be OK? Certainly glad there is no HOA where I live.

[CUDA]

I was in the Navy shortly after Vietnam, stationed in S.D. I saw and felt first hand how they treated the Military, it was not fun

[Octopus]

Towing a man's car in his driveway, in Texas, is a great way to get shot.

[Will Robinson]

At three in the morning sneak into the HOA members homes one at a time wake them with a hand over the mouth and blade across their throats and tell them you won't be taking prisoners if you have to come back....

[woodchip]

Better yet put offending decals on HOA committee cars.

[Top Wop]

Id rather live in a cardboard box in the streets than live in a HOA community. The fact that someone has the power to take your car away because it displays a message some people do not agree with irks me like nothing else.

[Hostile]

Ummmmm... What the hell are you guys talking about... HOAs are voluntary systems that the residents of the community under which they fall under SIGN UP FOR! No one is forcing a resident to agree to the HOA rules. If you move into a community with a HOA, you are bound by its covenance and any changes that are made to it in the future through the ammendment process in place with the HOA! If he doesn't like the rules in place with his HOA, he should move or suffer the penalty....

You might violate a clause in your sponsorship contract with Nike if you start wearing Reeboks on the NBA court, but they cannot enjoin you from saying things, just invoke the penalty on the contract.

This is not a free speech issue. He is violating the \"contract\" agreed to when he moved in and must now be subject to it's penalties just like DCrazy said here...

Also you CAN waive your right to free speech. It's called a confidentiality agreement. For instance, you settle out of court for an undisclosed sum. You have waived your right to talk about that sum or lose your settlement. Or if you get a security clearance and swear not to talk about secret stuff. You guys sound like blow hards who are generally fighting against the man for the purpose of fighting against the man!

This whole thing is taken out of context. It did not say if the other people seen by the TV station were being prosecuted or not either. TB is spewing forth and you all are running with it....AGAIN. This \"veteran\" is breaking the rules he agreed to in his community and now he either needs to fix the offending articles or suffer the consequences of the agreement. It has absolutely nothing to do with his service to America. Nothing.... His status as a veteran does not give him special rights to break the rules of his HOA....

One of the reasons I chose the house that I live in was BECAUSE of the HOA. I don't want political signs (or any signs for that matter) or ridiculous holidary decorations, or broken down shitbox cars, or giant recreational vehicles, or any other number of things that I disagree with in my neighborhood. I happily pay my homeowner's dues every month and live in a well manicured beautiful neighborhood with a bunch of other like minded individuals.....

And Will, your comment was not very Will like .

And Top Wop, you are exaggerating. No one believes you would rather live in a cardboard box than in an HOA community. The fact that someone has the power to take your car away is a power you agree to before you buy your house there. Or it is voted in under due process of the HOA by at least a majority of the residents and again you agree to be subject to that process under the HOA agreement. It is not a surprise by any measure.

[Hostile]

Towing a man's car in his driveway, in Texas, is a great way to get shot.

Shooting a man for trying to take your car in your driveway in Texas is a good way to end up in police custody and charged.....

[Ferno]

Hos: let me get this straight. you're telling us that in that contract, it states that one can have any kind of bumper sticker on it, just not the kind that he has on his car?

[Will Robinson]

...
And Will, your comment was not very Will like ....

I was trying to take the outrage and extrapolate towards the outcome it leads to but I think my delivery was too dry.
When I wrote it I was envisioning Rambo going after a bunch of blue haired old ladies because they don't like his pile of skulls that prop up his mailbox at 123 Pleasant Daisy Street in Happy Acres...

[CUDA]

so when are we going to start giving the middle finger to these 1-2 people that want to impose their will on others. In a Texas Hospital a worker had a large American Flag on her wall. someone took offense at it and she was ordered to take it down. so much for the land of the free.

McLucas, a supervisor at Kindred Hospital in Mansfield, Texas, had displayed the 3-by-5-foot flag in the office she shares with the hospital’s three other supervisors. McLucas said one of her colleagues, a woman who immigrated to the United States from Africa 14 years ago, complained about the flag to upper management, and the hospital decided to take down the flag.

\"I was told that as long as my flag offended one person, it would be taken down,\" McLucas said.

[flip]

I just had a similar experience. I was taking my family to Six Flags a few weeks ago. Got to the gate, and the security guard informs me I can't wear my bandana. This wasn't the first time so I just took it off and put it in my pocket. Well said security guard said I could'nt even put it in my pocket. That's when the fun began . The first time they finally just relented and said don't wear it through the gate. This time the guy thinks I'm actually gonna take it back to my car. LOL. Long story short, after about 25 minutes and alot of loud talking they finally gave in and told ne to go in the park. Moral of the story:

Standing up for your rights is not gonna be fun and easy. It's gonna be an argument everytime, so get some balls and start disagreeing now.

[Hostile]

Ferno> No, I don't know what his HOA bi-laws say. But from the limited information we have in this article, I'm saying that the HOA is making a case against this resident and he is likely defying the rules of the HOA. If indeed he is, then he will have to face the consequences. The consequences are removing the USMC advertisement as it is explained or pay a fine and have his car towed AND THEN remove the USMC advertisement. And before you get your panties in a bunch, I'm not the one who made the rules or executed them. The situation exists and I am telling you right now that this man will probably lose. My beef is with everyone coming in here spouting out about HOAs like they are evil drug cartels impinging on citizen's constitutional rights. They're not and they don't. And just because any of you have had a bad experience with one, doesn't make them evil. I have not agreed with mine at times, but I understand the rules..... And I do agree with nearly everything, which is why I CHOSE to live here when I signed the agreement.

so when are we going to start giving the middle finger to these 1-2 people that want to impose their will on others. In a Texas Hospital a worker had a large American Flag on her wall. someone took offense at it and she was ordered to take it down. so much for the land of the free.

McLucas, a supervisor at Kindred Hospital in Mansfield, Texas, had displayed the 3-by-5-foot flag in the office she shares with the hospital’s three other supervisors. McLucas said one of her colleagues, a woman who immigrated to the United States from Africa 14 years ago, complained about the flag to upper management, and the hospital decided to take down the flag.

"I was told that as long as my flag offended one person, it would be taken down," McLucas said.

Cuda> It was absurd to be offended by the flag, but it was the size not the what the flag represented according to the article. AND what you are not saying in that article is how the hospital invited her to put it back up..... Nice job. Not even close to this situation anyway.....

Flip> Your situation is not similar AT ALL. HOA bi-laws are binding agreements with the power of law and are completely VOLUNTARY. This veteran is not having some balls and standing up to disagree, he is likely WRONG. Six flags can have any rules they want about who they let in there.... I'm sure they reserve the right to refuse service to anyone they want just like any run of the mill restaurant. They may not want anyone looking like they are affiliated with a gang or whatever reason they have. And you don't have the RIGHT to enter private property anytime you want. You should have guessed that from the giant fence, security guards, oh and the admission fee you had to pay to enter for the PRIVILEGE of using their stuff.

[Hostile]

When I wrote it I was envisioning Rambo going after a bunch of blue haired old ladies because they don't like his pile of skulls that prop up his mailbox at 123 Pleasant Daisy Street in Happy Acres...

LOL!

[Spidey]

I was wondering who was going to provide the slap down.

This guy needs to go to the HOA and simply state his argument…“when the others remove their stickers I will remove mine” Then if they tell him that only “his” stickers are illegal, then he might have a case. (depends on the rules)

I have no problems with any HOA, as long as they enforce the laws evenhandedly.

For me, the only thing worse than submitting to authority is, these damn neighbors of mine that use their yards as parking lots, and tie their barking dogs up on the front porch, put their trash out in ways that result in it ending up everywhere…etc…etc…etc…don’t get me started!

We actually do have some rules here in Philly…but most people ignore them.

Heh, thanks for the opportunity to vent.

[Ferno]

What I'm wondering about now, is how his HOA rules apply to cars that can move under their own power, since they're technically deemed not to be part of any type of premises.

[flip]

so when are we going to start giving the middle finger to these 1-2 people that want to impose their will on others

The reason the Constitution refers to \"inalienable\" rights is because it wants to make sure that under no circumstances can anyone convince or force you to waive them. You cannot waive your right to free speech, for example.

[Ferno]

but you can sign an agreement stating that if you talk about something that you are not allowed to, you will probably be sued. such as the case of an NDA.

you can't scream fire in a crowded theatre and not end up being a punching bag for a judge.

[Spidey]

Unless there is a fire…

Always wanted to say that.

...........

Freedom of speech is not an “inalienable“ right it’s a “protected” right. And is indeed one of the ones you can give up by contract.

[flip]

but you can sign an agreement stating that if you talk about something that you are not allowed to, you will probably be sued. such as the case of an NDA.

you can't scream fire in a crowded theatre and not end up being a punching bag for a judge.

True and in the case of the homeowner, if he agreed to that crap, so be it. He is bound to it. I myself signed nothing but a credit card receipt after I paid for a SERVICE. This whole thread just reminded me of the countless times I see people relent their constitutional rights because somebody else said they couldn't do something. Now we argue that our morals are ok as long as they don't harm another, and that bumper sticker or my bandana were not harming anyone. The duplicity in my case, and the point I made and walked in with MY bandana on, was that in sight, there was at least 12 muslims all wearing head dresses. It was obvious I was there with 4 kids and my wife and had no gang affiliation. So good judgement wasn't there either. If that guy can't have a bumper sticker on his car, then nobody else in that subdivision better have ANY kind of bumper sticker either.
What gets me the worse though, is at least in the south 20 years ago, I would have had complete strangers over there arguing for my right to wear a bandana instead of what I see today. SHEEPLE. I can't believe the majority is not pissed off about all these \"little\" crimes against our constitutional rights, but rather are content being told what to do and where to go.

[Spidey]

Yup, because most people don’t seem to understand where their rights end and their privileges begin.

[flip]

I had to think about that for a minute Spidey. Your absolutely right. A few weeks ago we had special olympics at my childs school. Now I wear a knife clipped to my pocket so its exposed. Walked right in front of the police chief and one of his deputies. The deputy noticed my knife and I heard him mention it to the police chief. Thing is, according to Georgia law, as long as I have business at that school, I can carry a concealed firearm or a unconcealed knife. I heard the chief say that and then say, that was what is wrong with America today. People don't know their rights. What bothered me though, is the deputy, a law enforcement officer, didn't know it either.

[Ferno]

Unless there is a fire…

Always wanted to say that.

did you seriously need to post something so obvious? come on..

[Spidey]

Are you accusing me of stating the obvious?

you can't scream fire in a crowded theatre

[Duper]

The reason the Constitution refers to "inalienable" rights is because it wants to make sure that under no circumstances can anyone convince or force you to waive them. You cannot waive your right to free speech, for example.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

SOURCE

[Hostile]

This guy needs to go to the HOA and simply state his argument…“when the others remove their stickers I will remove mine” Then if they tell him that only “his” stickers are illegal, then he might have a case. (depends on the rules)

I have no problems with any HOA, as long as they enforce the laws evenhandedly.

This is EXACTLY right....

What I'm wondering about now, is how his HOA rules apply to cars that can move under their own power, since they're technically deemed not to be part of any type of premises.

From my experience with a couple different HOAs, vehicles of all types are addressed specifically in detail. In my neighborhood, we have some guest parking available in the public throughways. However, vehicles OF ANY KIND are not allowed to park there for more than 24 hours without being moved unless it is Saturday (basically meaning you can park a car there for the weekend). No Recreational Vehicles are allowed parked in my neighborhood period. No parking ANY vehicles in yards. You have to park your vehicles in your garage or in your driveway. Etc. etc. etc. The rules are usually clearly delineated in the HOA agreement and like I have said before, you can't even purchase your home unless you agree to the HOA covenance, which is part of the closing process and fully disclosed.....

[Hostile]

So good judgement wasn't there either. If that guy can't have a bumper sticker on his car, then nobody else in that subdivision better have ANY kind of bumper sticker either.

Agreed 100%. Which goes to what Spidey said about evenhandedness...... Although my gut instinct tells me that the HOA was not against bumperstickers in general, but againts a car COVERED with bumper stickers.... They probably don't want anything to look trashy in their neighborhood. And I think you or anyone for that matter can appreciate that a car with a single bumpersticker is barely noticed, but a car covered with them looks trashy (no matter what the stickers say). Opinions are like a-holes, eveyrone's got one.

[Ferno]

and depending on the size, it could be considered as two.

[Spidey]

Duper…

The Declaration of Independence speaks of certain unalienable Rights, but lists only 3. These are provided by the creator.

The Bill of Rights enumerates the “protected” rights, such as freedom of speech. The rights in the bill of rights can be taken away or added to by amendment, or given up by contract. These are protected by law.

Just look at Repeal of Prohibition. XXI

Inalienable:
impossible to take away: not able to be transferred or taken away, e.g. because of being protected by law

Doesn’t say you can’t give them up, or the law can’t be changed.

I’m an employer going on 20 years, I know a little about the law in this case… So if I hire you, and you sign a contract saying you won’t disclose the customer list, you are saying that would be an invalid contract? (unconstitutional) And when I tell you to shut up and get to work, that would also be unconstitutional?

Or is it just the case that since I can’t physically stop you, then your freedom of speech is still intact, and you can say whatever you want?

That would be a semantic argument, because I could then have you locked in a dungeon, so where would your right to freedom be?

[Duper]

Duper…

The Declaration of Independence speaks of certain unalienable Rights, but lists only 3. These are provided by the creator.

The Bill of Rights enumerates the “protected” rights, such as freedom of speech. The rights in the bill of rights can be taken away or added to by amendment, or given up by contract. These are protected by law.

Just look at Repeal of Prohibition. XXI

Inalienable:
impossible to take away: not able to be transferred or taken away, e.g. because of being protected by law

Doesn’t say you can’t give them up, or the law can’t be changed.

Oh, I understand. I just thought it would be good form to post the text so these things are clear. Many haven't read through any of the documents so it's good to see exactly what is written.

.. you own a dungeon?? ...i dunt wanna know.