Once Again

[woodchip]

Obam gives a speech and the market tanks. DJI down 312 points. Good thing is I sold out when it was up 500 points and will buy back when my target stocks come down a bit more.

[Tunnelcat]

Figures you'd post something like this woody. Like it's Obama's fault that the European Banks just might going under, which is what Wall Street happens to be concerned about right now.

What you should have been griping about was how feeble and uncreative Obama's Job's Act Bill really came out as. Too small, too late, same old tactics tried before. Obama really needs to read from a new playbook, instead of using Clinton's and Truman's.

[woodchip]

TC, kind of part and parcel to my post. When Obama learns to not keep repackaging what he said before, when he gets people other than college professor theory crafters advising him and when he stops thinking socialism works perhaps then he will come up with a speech that will make the markets go up instead of down.

[CUDA]

What you should have been griping about was how feeble and uncreative Obama's Job's Act Bill really came out as. Too small, too late, same old tactics tried before. Obama really needs to read from a new playbook, instead of using Clinton's and Truman's.

OMG

Hell just froze over TC and I agree

[callmeslick]

Obam gives a speech and the market tanks. DJI down 312 points. Good thing is I sold out when it was up 500 points and will buy back when my target stocks come down a bit more.

um, you do realize that the downward pressure was ENTIRELY due to the resignation of that dude in the European Financial agency, right? I mean, as of now, I must have heard a few dozen talking head economist types expound on it and NOT ONE mentioned the speech as ANY factor whatsoever. I'm sure Fox Business channel would have one or two that saw it that way, but most on Wall Street don't act on speeches, and there certainly was nothing in those ideas that would in any way upset the Street. Not that this Congress will manage to pass the bill, and that fact might be a downward drag as we head toward
winter.

[callmeslick]

oh, and while most(probably even Obama) agree that a much earlier and larger incarnation of this type of thing should have been done, those with any memory whatsoever will remember that these ideas have been dismissed by the GOP House and Senate caucus for three years.

[woodchip]

Obam gives a speech and the market tanks. DJI down 312 points. Good thing is I sold out when it was up 500 points and will buy back when my target stocks come down a bit more.

um, you do realize that the downward pressure was ENTIRELY due to the resignation of that dude in the European Financial agency, right? I mean, as of now, I must have heard a few dozen talking head economist types expound on it and NOT ONE mentioned the speech as ANY factor whatsoever. I'm sure Fox Business channel would have one or two that saw it that way, but most on Wall Street don't act on speeches, and there certainly was nothing in those ideas that would in any way upset the Street. Not that this Congress will manage to pass the bill, and that fact might be a downward drag as we head toward
winter.

Yes I do realize that and if the euros go down in flames look for the rest of the world to follow. If that happens I hope the socialist paradigm dies with it. Now slick, you do realize every time Obama gives a economy speech the market tanks. The last speech was no exception.

[callmeslick]

woodchip, you are as knee-jerk delusional on Obama and TB is on Islamic Law. And, in both cases, it's a combination of hilarious and pathetic to read.

[Top Gun]

Just remember, slick, every single thing Obama does is ZOMG DAT EBIL SOCIALISM KILL IT WITH FIYAH!!!

[woodchip]

woodchip, you are as knee-jerk delusional on Obama and TB is on Islamic Law. And, in both cases, it's a combination of hilarious and pathetic to read.

And yet you respond.

[Spidey]

I’d be laughing my ass off right now, if not for a very ironic coincidence.

[Tunnelcat]

What you should have been griping about was how feeble and uncreative Obama's Job's Act Bill really came out as. Too small, too late, same old tactics tried before. Obama really needs to read from a new playbook, instead of using Clinton's and Truman's.

OMG

Hell just froze over TC and I agree

Oh, and I forgot his pathetic attempt at replicating an FDR Hail Mary during the first recession. That's been Obama's problem from the start of his presidency and I knew when he selected all those Clinton insiders we were in trouble. He just can't seem to be creative and come up with new and strong ideas on his own. I don't know why, he's a smart guy. He keeps banging his head on a brick wall and trying old, stale ideas in a new world order, over and over again.He keeps failing at it too. Last night, he still epically failed. Unless we get an absolute nutcase for a Republican contender, Obama will lose in 2012.

[snoopy]

Did you notice how many times he said that it should be passed right away?

I didn't start counting until it was too late, but it had to have been about twenty.

I had an interesting conversation recently about the difference between assertions and arguments. The conclusion of the conversation was that it's easy to make assertions even when your wrong and it's hard to make arguments, even more so when you're wrong.

I saw Obama making a lot of assertions... now I want to be the arguments behind them.

[woodchip]

Did you notice how many times he said that it should be passed right away?

I didn't start counting until it was too late, but it had to have been about twenty.

Snoopy, its the Nancy Pelosi syndrome. You know, where one has to pass a bill before you can find out whats in it. Huckster selling snake oil tell you to buy it right away.

[CUDA]

PASS WHAT??????? there isnt even a bill before congress to pass not to mention his "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a stimulus plan today speech wasn't even complete.!!!!!!!!
The man spends a whole Month promising this wonderful Job speech to the Nation, talking about how important an issue this is. and I'll let you know how important once I get back off of my month long Vacation,
And since this speech IS so important, once I DO get back from vacation, I'm going to create a controversy by planning it on the same night as the RNC debates that have been scheduled for months in advance.
And I'm going to break 200 years of protocol in doing so by requesting a joint session of congress to make my speech, and then releasing a memo to the press before a time has been agreed to by the Speaker of the House.
I do this all in the hope that nobody watches it. but instead pays more attention to the controversy I stirred up.
But if that doesn't work I'll move it to the next night, the same night as the start of MNF so I KNOW no one will watch it. and if anyone does watch it. when I make this "Most Important speech" I'll make sure I'm speaking directly to all the stupid people out there by calling for another Stimulus plan, but we wont call it a stimulus,because that has bad meaning with people now. this time we'll call it a "job's Bill". yea that's it a Job's bill. because that doesn't have as bad an image as calling it "Stimulus 2 the Economy strikes back" or "Return of the Stimulus"...
and I'm going to promote all of this Infrastructure work to create more "job's" which didn't create jobs the last time we tried it. and of course we need this passed now!!! NOW I tell you!!!! OVER AND OVER AND OVER.. AGAIN PASS IT NOW.
but you'll need to get back to me in two weeks for the "most Important job's speech" Part Duex because Job's are my Number one priority

[Zuruck]

And to think that you've added eight? to the gene pool of America....yikes.

[flip]

No that ★■◆● is true. If that ★■◆● continually happened on my job the lumber toter would have run him off. Trust me.

[CUDA]

And to think that you've added eight? to the gene pool of America....yikes.

I notice you didn't dispute anything I said and went right to the Personal attacks again. how Mature of you.

[dissent]

What you should have been griping about was how feeble and uncreative Obama's Job's Act Bill really came out as. Too small, too late, same old tactics tried before. Obama really needs to read from a new playbook, instead of using Clinton's and Truman's.

OMG

Hell just froze over TC and I agree

/me shivers also

[Zuruck]

What's the point?

You didn't complain when the previous President took vacation time. You didn't complain when the previous President bailed out the banking industry. You didn't complain about rampant deficit spending then. But now it's all different. Now it all matters, now government spending must be halted for the sake of everyone's children. The routine is just so old Cuda. There is nothing about this President that you won't complain about. Even if he scheduled his speech intentionally on the night of the GOP debate, he's the goddamn President and gets that right. Even if you didn't agree with it, hearing a speech about improving the economy is much more important than listening to 1000 sick individuals cheering at the notion that Rick Perry doesn't care if his state may have put an innocent person to death.

But who am I kidding. I'm just some dumb liberal that has ideas that change over time as the world changes? I mean a real man believes the same thing regardless of anything right? It's not a personal attack when it's the truth. My sister and her husband are wonderfully smart people, but they only have three kids. So they canceled out three of your idiots, but you still have six more. It's sad, but you guys are just going to straight out breed us aren't you? Civilization crumbles.

edit. i forgot

[Sergeant Thorne]

Civilization crumbles because of people like CUDA, eh? That's certainly a unique perspective. Stop foaming at the mouth and try to stick to the facts.

Hearing a speech about "improving the economy" is only as important as the speech is candid and meaningful, which means its probably not important at all, considering the state of American politics.

[Tunnelcat]

Zuruck, I'm a liberal minded person and I agree with everything you said. Very few conservatives (if any) here spoke up at all about all the crap Bush was pulling during his tenure. The lying, the spying, the privatizing (unfunded by the way) and the off-the-books drunken spending on 2 unnecessary wars that got us into this mess in the first place, with the help of an enabling Republican Congress by the way, has been conveniently pushed under the rug. Now they suddenly find religion when a Democrat gets elected and surprise, they miraculously find all sorts of blemishes and warts with his presidency, even before he started work! I will give a pass to several conservatives here because they weren't on the board back then. But a couple of you were.

However, in defense of their arguments, Obama has sure made it easy to get attacked. Everything he's done is a rehash of someone else's ideas. Ideas that in all probability will no longer be totally effective in a global economy. He just hasn't been creative at all. All we've seen were Clinton ideas thrown at the problem over and over again. Come on Obama! Triangulation is an epic failure! Worse, he doesn't seem to want to put in the full court press that's really needed to get things done. He keeps bringing a knife to a gunfight. He's not willing to pull toenails. All his plans and ideas are half-baked efforts because he can't seem to figure out that the other party does NOT want to compromise with him, or even work with him, AT ALL. He needs to realize that they're too fixed on getting him to fail and out of office.

He also doesn't have the Congress that FDR did when he was in office. But remember, Obama did have a Democratic Congress at the start and STILL nothing in the form of a permanent economic fix got put through. His signature legislation, Healthcare, is rife with problems and animosity from both sides of the isle. Even financial regulations put through to help stop another banking crisis from happening again are being whittled away by the greedy Oligarchs as a "solution" to our economic problems. Sheesh, like we have short memories.

Now he's put forth a meager last ditch effort, the Jobs Act, which is too small, too little, too late and has only one-sided support. And going around the country pontificating by pulling a Truman and trying to blame a deadlocked Congress for inaction may backfire on him. It's all a dangerous game and we're all pawns. Obama's just another wienie Democrat from a long line of wienie Democrats that utterly knuckled under when push came to shove.

On a side note, you know an infrastructure idea I would've put forth? How about getting the government to back and finance the installation of 100 mbps internet connectivity to every home in the U.S.? Private enterprise sure isn't sidling up to the plate and it would sure create a ton of jobs with long term benefits to the nation.

[Zuruck]

And you see TC, I completely agree with what you said about Obama. While it's clear that he got handed a ★■◆● situation and an opposition that banked their success on blocking every single thing he wanted to do, he still hasn't done enough. But I'm so sick and tired of the mindset that the other party has where "freedom" means not having to pay taxes or do anything for the greater good of society. I'd like the government to work better, but I sure as hell don't want it gone. There are so many things to fix, so many issues here and there, but to just sit back and blame one side while your side does nothing is just so effing lame. The Dems are guilty of that as well, sure, but one side fought for tax cuts while fighting two wars while bailing out the banking industry while passing a massive medicare plan while creating an entirely new department of federal government, and not paying for a single dime of it. But now we can't shoulder our kids with debt. Now it's just too much.

Thorne, the substance of the speech is not the issue at hand. Cuda is all bent out of shape because it was on the same night as a GOP debate. Again, the President of the United States does not have to play second fiddle to anyone, regardless of party. And what exactly is Galileo's spell??

[Sergeant Thorne]

Again, the President of the United States does not have to play second fiddle to anyone, regardless of party.

I'd say that's true. But that's not the point. The point is that people believe that the coincidence in scheduling is actually deliberate political maneuvering. Personally I wouldn't put it past the current administration (not a comment on previous administrations).

[CUDA]

What's the point?

You didn't complain when the previous President took vacation time. You didn't complain when the previous President bailed out the banking industry. You didn't complain about rampant deficit spending then. But now it's all different. Now it all matters, now government spending must be halted for the sake of everyone's children. The routine is just so old Cuda. There is nothing about this President that you won't complain about. Even if he scheduled his speech intentionally on the night of the GOP debate, he's the ******* President and gets that right. Even if you didn't agree with it, hearing a speech about improving the economy is much more important than listening to 1000 sick individuals cheering at the notion that Rick Perry doesn't care if his state may have put an innocent person to death.

still not debating the OP topic I see. is it because you refuse too? or because you can't?

But who am I kidding. I'm just some dumb liberal

Glad you realize that

So they canceled out three of your idiots,

AH so now it's not just enough to personally attack ME. now you feel the need to attack my Family as well
you must make your Mother proud. not smart enough to debate a topic. but bold enough to make personal attacks on a man and his Family that you've never met

I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left.

Seems she was right wasn't she Zuruck? you don't have an argument

Cuda is all bent out of shape because it was on the same night as a GOP debate.

if that's all you got out of what I wrote then my 4 year old Grandson has a book that's right at your Reading level.

the President of the United States does not have to play second fiddle to anyone,

that doesn't give him the right to run roughshod on the person who is #3 in line of succession. he owes the same amount of respect to the Speaker ESPECIALLY in his house that he expects to get in return

[Tunnelcat]

the President of the United States does not have to play second fiddle to anyone,

that doesn't give him the right to run roughshod on the person who is #3 in line of succession. he owes the same amount of respect to the Speaker ESPECIALLY in his house that he expects to get in return

I'm afraid I disagree. The President is the Commander in Chief. He is the leader of our country. His position should be respected as paramount by those under him. If the president wants to give a speech before Congress on a certain date, his wishes should be given priority, not a whiny "I can't accomodate you" response, especially for something like a non-state affair like a Republican debate. When a commander has those under him question his judgement, what good is the hierarchy in the first place. We don't have 3 leaders, we have one, and it's not Boehner.

[dissent]

Zuruck, I'm a liberal minded person and I agree with everything you said. Very few conservatives (if any) here spoke up at all about all the crap Bush was pulling during his tenure. The lying, the spying, the privatizing (unfunded by the way) and the off-the-books drunken spending on 2 unnecessary wars that got us into this mess in the first place, with the help of an enabling Republican Congress by the way, has been conveniently pushed under the rug. Now they suddenly find religion when a Democrat gets elected and surprise, they miraculously find all sorts of blemishes and warts with his presidency, even before he started work! I will give a pass to several conservatives here because they weren't on the board back then. But a couple of you were.

I can't recall how it was here when Bush 43 was in office, but it certainly was NOT true, in general, that conservatives failed to criticize Bush for many of his actions while in office.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... ge=printer

http://www.slate.com/id/2136717/

http://factreal.blogspot.com/2009/03/my ... ppose.html

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2004-0 ... -political

Hey, it's not often you'll see me post Dana Milbank or Slate as a source.

[dissent]

I'm afraid I disagree. The President is the Commander in Chief. He is the leader of our country. His position should be respected as paramount by those under him. If the president wants to give a speech before Congress on a certain date, his wishes should be given priority, not a whiny "I can't accomodate you" response, especially for something like a non-state affair like a Republican debate. When a commander has those under him question his judgement, what good is the hierarchy in the first place. We don't have 3 leaders, we have one, and it's not Boehner.

Why are you conflating the President's position as the civilian head of the military with any of his civil relationships? The President is CinC of the military, not Lord of the entire realm. He doesn't get to demand an appearance in Congress, he asks for an invitation and works out the details behind the scenes well in advance of any announcement, just as all previous presidents have done.

[CUDA]

I'm afraid I disagree. The President is the Commander in Chief. He is the leader of our country. His position should be respected as paramount by those under him.

you mean like the kind of respect that a Democrat gave Bush when they compared him to Hitler? or when a Democrat called Bush a Liar during a session of Congress on the house floor, and unlike when Wilson did it to Obama didn't apologize. or when Democrats Boo'd Bush during his 2005 State of the Union address? that kind of respect??

[Spidey]

Someone needs to read the Constitution.

The Congress is a nearly autonomous body, the president has little or no authority there. The only people “under” him are the people who work for that branch of government.

The state of the union address is the only “official” speech a president makes.

[callmeslick]

to the original post:

"You can tie our stock market directly to European banks — the problem they have is sovereign debt exposure," said Jack de Gan, chief investment officer at Harbor Advisory Corp in Portsmouth, New Hampshire.

[callmeslick]

ok, a double post......why, I don't know.

[Tunnelcat]

Well, all your points are valid CUDA, Spidey and dissent. I can't argue against them. But Bush got an unquestioned free ride during his first term and wasn't really put into the hot seat until all the crap he was doing finally "came to the light of day" during his second term and the obscuring cloud of 9/11 had worn off. By then, he had used up that "political capital" and overextended his policies, power and welcome. I guess I'm just tired of a Congress that can't seem to get along or work with the President or each other.