Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

For discussion of life's issues: current events, social trends and personal opinions.

Moderators: Tunnelcat, Jeff250

User avatar
Nightshade
DBB Master
DBB Master
Posts: 5138
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2001 2:01 am
Location: Planet Earth, USA
Contact:

Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by Nightshade »

...of the middle east.
Egypt’s President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi made an extraordinary speech on New Year’s Day to Cairo’s Al-Azhar and the Awqaf Ministry calling for a long overdue virtual ecclesiastical revolution in Islam. This is something no Western leader has the had the courage to do, certainly not Barack Obama, despite his Muslim education.

Accusing the umma (world Islamic population) of encouraging the hostility of the entire world, al-Sisi’s speech is so dramatic and essentially revolutionary it brings to mind Khrushchev’s famous speech exposing Stalin. Many have called for a reformation of Islam, but for the leader of the largest Arab nation to do so has world-changing implications.

Here are the key parts as translated on Raymond Ibrahim’s blog:

I am referring here to the religious clerics. We have to think hard about what we are facing—and I have, in fact, addressed this topic a couple of times before. It’s inconceivable that the thinking that we hold most sacred should cause the entire umma [Islamic world] to be a source of anxiety, danger, killing and destruction for the rest of the world. Impossible!

That thinking—I am not saying “religion” but “thinking”—that corpus of texts and ideas that we have sacralized over the years, to the point that departing from them has become almost impossible, is antagonizing the entire world. It’s antagonizing the entire world!

Is it possible that 1.6 billion people [Muslims] should want to kill the rest of the world’s inhabitants—that is 7 billion—so that they themselves may live? Impossible!

I am saying these words here at Al Azhar, before this assembly of scholars and ulema—Allah Almighty be witness to your truth on Judgment Day concerning that which I’m talking about now.

All this that I am telling you, you cannot feel it if you remain trapped within this mindset. You need to step outside of yourselves to be able to observe it and reflect on it from a more enlightened perspective.

I say and repeat again that we are in need of a religious revolution. You, imams, are responsible before Allah. The entire world, I say it again, the entire world is waiting for your next move… because this umma is being torn, it is being destroyed, it is being lost—and it is being lost by our own hands. [bolds mine]


Al-Sisi is certainly correct. The whole world has been waiting for a long time for the next move of these imams or for somebody, anybody that will modernize Islam as other religions have done.. Whether that will happen, of course, is another question, but what al-Sisi is saying here is in many ways more revolutionary than the “Arab Spring.” People ask, where are the “moderate Muslims”? Well, one of them may be the president of Egypt. The boys from Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS, Boko Haram, al Qaeda, etc., etc., are probably not too happy about what al-Sisi said. Let’s hope he doesn’t suffer the fate of Anwar Sadat for his courage.
Al Sisi, leader of Egypt, (a leader of one of the most influencial muslim countries in the middle east) has advocated the reform of islam. It is simply amazing that someone in his position spoke out in spite of the threat of being killed for saying it.

http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2015/01/ ... -on-islam/
.
"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun" - Mao Zedong
User avatar
woodchip
DBB Benefactor
DBB Benefactor
Posts: 17694
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 2:01 am

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by woodchip »

TB, this is akin to the Martin Luther King speech but doing a quick tour of the news sites I don't see one main stream new source reporting it. Sad really.
Liberal speak: "Convenience for you means control for him, free and the price is astronomical, you're the product for sale". Neil Oliver

Leftist are Evil, and Liberals keep voting for them. Dennis Prager
User avatar
callmeslick
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 14546
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Rockland,DE and Parksley, VA

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by callmeslick »

been too busy to notice that item before, but it is the sort of message that could ONLY come from within the Islamic community. Good for him. Very brave act.
"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell---"1984"
User avatar
Jeff250
DBB Master
DBB Master
Posts: 6522
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 1999 2:01 am
Location: ❄️❄️❄️

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by Jeff250 »

Off-topic posts have been removed.
User avatar
sigma
DBB Fleet Admiral
DBB Fleet Admiral
Posts: 2840
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:24 am
Location: Moscow

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by sigma »

Jeff250 wrote:Off-topic posts have been removed.
American censorship in action. Where off topic? The title of this theme involves communication virtually any topic :shock: Apparently, at a pace you'll soon be talk to himself here.
And let's agree that the administrators will provide a detailed justification of the reasons for the removal posts of members of the forum, OK?
User avatar
callmeslick
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 14546
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Rockland,DE and Parksley, VA

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by callmeslick »

ummm, Sigma, the thread(title aside) dealt with a specific statement, about a specific topic, by a specific person. Your contributions
were nothing but cheap trolling. Whining about the moderation will not change that.
"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell---"1984"
User avatar
Top Gun
DBB Master
DBB Master
Posts: 8029
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 3:01 am

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by Top Gun »

woodchip wrote:TB, this is akin to the Martin Luther King speech but doing a quick tour of the news sites I don't see one main stream new source reporting it. Sad really.
Given the content, it sounds more like Martin Luther, period. Let's hope that something comes of it.
User avatar
woodchip
DBB Benefactor
DBB Benefactor
Posts: 17694
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 2:01 am

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by woodchip »

Top Gun wrote:
woodchip wrote:TB, this is akin to the Martin Luther King speech but doing a quick tour of the news sites I don't see one main stream new source reporting it. Sad really.
Given the content, it sounds more like Martin Luther, period. Let's hope that something comes of it.
I agree but without the main stream press reporting on it I doubt it will go far.
Liberal speak: "Convenience for you means control for him, free and the price is astronomical, you're the product for sale". Neil Oliver

Leftist are Evil, and Liberals keep voting for them. Dennis Prager
User avatar
callmeslick
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 14546
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Rockland,DE and Parksley, VA

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by callmeslick »

actually, I'd be more interested in the media coverage within the Islamic world. I'm not sure what significance it really has for the Western press,
beyond interesting tidbit at this point. Why does the lack of coverage in OUR media matter, as you see it?
"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell---"1984"
User avatar
woodchip
DBB Benefactor
DBB Benefactor
Posts: 17694
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 2:01 am

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by woodchip »

callmeslick wrote:actually, I'd be more interested in the media coverage within the Islamic world. I'm not sure what significance it really has for the Western press,
beyond interesting tidbit at this point. Why does the lack of coverage in OUR media matter, as you see it?
It matters because there are large numbers of Muslims live in western countries. It matters because without the western press reporting it, chances for radicalized western Muslims increases.
It matters because we can start to see a backlash starting in countries like Germany where "Pin Stripe Nazis" are on the rise with their vocal anti-Islam rhetoric.
As you can see there are plenty of reasons for the press to report this. The question is why they don't and why do you see this as only a "tidbit".
Liberal speak: "Convenience for you means control for him, free and the price is astronomical, you're the product for sale". Neil Oliver

Leftist are Evil, and Liberals keep voting for them. Dennis Prager
User avatar
Will Robinson
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10121
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 3:01 am

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by Will Robinson »

slick, it matters because the man suggested the rest of the world is turning on Islam due to the radicals corruption of Islam.
So if the "rest of the world" just yawns at his statement and doesn't give him some props for articulating the problem it is like leaving him swinging in the breeze...

I think you are knee-jerking resistance because you don't want to see your political opponents take vindication for having been saying the same thing...a message which you shouted down with contempt and accusations of racism.
User avatar
callmeslick
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 14546
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Rockland,DE and Parksley, VA

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by callmeslick »

woodchip wrote:
callmeslick wrote:actually, I'd be more interested in the media coverage within the Islamic world. I'm not sure what significance it really has for the Western press,
beyond interesting tidbit at this point. Why does the lack of coverage in OUR media matter, as you see it?
It matters because there are large numbers of Muslims live in western countries. It matters because without the western press reporting it, chances for radicalized western Muslims increases.
It matters because we can start to see a backlash starting in countries like Germany where "Pin Stripe Nazis" are on the rise with their vocal anti-Islam rhetoric.
As you can see there are plenty of reasons for the press to report this. The question is why they don't and why do you see this as only a "tidbit".
fair enough points all, but the way I see it, the change has to begin within the traditional Muslim world, because virtually all Western sources of radicalization seem to be traceable to Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Pakistan. Just my two cents, doesn't in any way mean that I'd invalidate your personal priorities. Wouldn't a trumpeting of this in the Western press lead to a loss of credibility of the message within the more radical western communities?
"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell---"1984"
User avatar
callmeslick
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 14546
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Rockland,DE and Parksley, VA

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by callmeslick »

Will Robinson wrote:slick, it matters because the man suggested the rest of the world is turning on Islam due to the radicals corruption of Islam.
So if the "rest of the world" just yawns at his statement and doesn't give him some props for articulating the problem it is like leaving him swinging in the breeze...

I think you are knee-jerking resistance because you don't want to see your political opponents take vindication for having been saying the same thing...a message which you shouted down with contempt and accusations of racism.
pure ideological drivel, as usual from you, Will. I stated my reasons above, and note the lack of domestic politics in my reasoning. As it should be with international matters. Too bad the right sees EVERYTHING as a battle with the 'evil liberal elite' or some such claptrap.
"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell---"1984"
User avatar
Will Robinson
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10121
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2000 3:01 am

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by Will Robinson »

callmeslick wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:slick, it matters because the man suggested the rest of the world is turning on Islam due to the radicals corruption of Islam.
So if the "rest of the world" just yawns at his statement and doesn't give him some props for articulating the problem it is like leaving him swinging in the breeze...

I think you are knee-jerking resistance because you don't want to see your political opponents take vindication for having been saying the same thing...a message which you shouted down with contempt and accusations of racism.
pure ideological drivel, as usual from you, Will. I stated my reasons above, and note the lack of domestic politics in my reasoning. As it should be with international matters. Too bad the right sees EVERYTHING as a battle with the 'evil liberal elite' or some such claptrap.
Your reasoning has flawed logic...as if the radicals would have had an epiphany if not for the Western media publishing the call for non-radicalization....lol. Not likely. The fate of Anwar Sadat being revisited is more likely their reaction to the message regardless of if our media echoes it or not.

And the domestic political angle I introduced is just pointed at you directly and you certainly jerk that leg often enough to validate my assertion. I can get it going with a few choice words every time. I can trigger you like Pavlov did his dog.
User avatar
Ferno
DBB Commie Anarchist Thug
DBB Commie Anarchist Thug
Posts: 15028
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 1998 3:01 am

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by Ferno »

What the hell is the "evil liberal elite" anyways?

CEO's? Bankers?

oh wait, those guys are usually republicans.


certainly not celebrities; because last I checked, they never really had any influence on the world.
User avatar
callmeslick
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 14546
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Rockland,DE and Parksley, VA

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by callmeslick »

another voice in the wilderness. One that needs to be applauded, and shows, clearly, that 'Muslims' are not a monolithic bunch, either:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01 ... 1421153515

Pack your bags and f-off........perfect. I'd give the same message to whining Conservative extremists in THIS country, too.
"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell---"1984"
User avatar
CUDA
DBB Master
DBB Master
Posts: 6482
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 2:01 am
Location: A Conservative Man in the Liberal bastion of the Pacific Northwest. in Oregon City. Oregon

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by CUDA »

callmeslick wrote:Pack your bags and f-off........perfect. I'd give the same message to whining Conservative extremists in THIS country, too.
way to be one sided and Biased. nothing like leaving out the Liberal extremists. Nah couldn't do that now could we.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.” 

― Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Krom
DBB Database Master
DBB Database Master
Posts: 16058
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 1998 3:01 am
Location: Camping the energy center. BTW, did you know you can have up to 100 characters in this location box?
Contact:

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by Krom »

What exactly is a liberal extremist? Would it be like Green Peace suicide bombing China because they pollute the most? Or some priest calling for jihad because the government doesn't spend enough money?
User avatar
CUDA
DBB Master
DBB Master
Posts: 6482
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 2:01 am
Location: A Conservative Man in the Liberal bastion of the Pacific Northwest. in Oregon City. Oregon

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by CUDA »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_terrorism
The ideology of left-wing terrorists is heavily influenced by Marxist and other communist and socialist thought.
By definition it could be said that Many in our Government are left wing terrorists
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.” 

― Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
callmeslick
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 14546
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Rockland,DE and Parksley, VA

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by callmeslick »

wow, CUDA, go seek reality, you have fallen off the deep end. 'Many in our government are terrorists', because they, like pretty much everyone from both parties have absorbed Marxist thought into political reality? And, further, that accepting some tenets of Marxism means someone is potentially a terrorist? Wow! Talk about a McCarthy era definition!
"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell---"1984"
User avatar
CUDA
DBB Master
DBB Master
Posts: 6482
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 2:01 am
Location: A Conservative Man in the Liberal bastion of the Pacific Northwest. in Oregon City. Oregon

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by CUDA »

what you don't like the definition of a left wing extremist?? I didn't make it up. I guess all I can say is
TOO BAD Sucks to be you
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.” 

― Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
callmeslick
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 14546
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Rockland,DE and Parksley, VA

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by callmeslick »

CUDA wrote:what you don't like the definition of a left wing extremist?? I didn't make it up. I guess all I can say is
TOO BAD Sucks to be you
apparently, if that is all you have for a definition, both you and the 'author' of the bogus definition(Wiki-the home of Bogus Definition) are utterly clueless as to what makes an Terrorist. For starters, committing acts of terror define a terrorist, NOT the foundations of thinking which are shared with many regular, productive citizens. Sort of like the lunacy behind calling all Muslims terrorists.
"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell---"1984"
User avatar
callmeslick
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 14546
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Rockland,DE and Parksley, VA

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by callmeslick »

it is a relief to see that virtually every example of 'leftist extremism' or 'leftist terrorist groups' was from between 1939 and 1989. I guess we've all gotten past that threat, huh?
"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell---"1984"
User avatar
CUDA
DBB Master
DBB Master
Posts: 6482
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 2:01 am
Location: A Conservative Man in the Liberal bastion of the Pacific Northwest. in Oregon City. Oregon

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by CUDA »

callmeslick wrote:it is a relief to see that virtually every example of 'leftist extremism' or 'leftist terrorist groups' was from between 1939 and 1989. I guess we've all gotten past that threat, huh?
Funny how when you Google Current socialist members of Congress if comes up with Bernie Sanders an admitted Socialist, and the Congressional Progressive Caucus at the top of the list. HRM A rose by any other name maybe?

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=c ... 20congress
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.” 

― Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
CUDA
DBB Master
DBB Master
Posts: 6482
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 2:01 am
Location: A Conservative Man in the Liberal bastion of the Pacific Northwest. in Oregon City. Oregon

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by CUDA »

callmeslick wrote:
CUDA wrote:what you don't like the definition of a left wing extremist?? I didn't make it up. I guess all I can say is
TOO BAD Sucks to be you
apparently, if that is all you have for a definition, both you and the 'author' of the bogus definition(Wiki-the home of Bogus Definition) are utterly clueless as to what makes an Terrorist. For starters, committing acts of terror define a terrorist, NOT the foundations of thinking which are shared with many regular, productive citizens. Sort of like the lunacy behind calling all Muslims terrorists.
Really Acts of terror define a Terrorist??

Fort Hood shooter "work place violence" maybe it's not as cut and dry as you want it to be huh?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.” 

― Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
Spidey
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10725
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 2:01 am
Location: Earth

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by Spidey »

Krom wrote:What exactly is a liberal extremist? Would it be like Green Peace suicide bombing China because they pollute the most? Or some priest calling for jihad because the government doesn't spend enough money?
A “liberal extremist” is someone that would take away every individual right you have in the name of the “common good”.
User avatar
callmeslick
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 14546
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Rockland,DE and Parksley, VA

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by callmeslick »

CUDA wrote:
callmeslick wrote:it is a relief to see that virtually every example of 'leftist extremism' or 'leftist terrorist groups' was from between 1939 and 1989. I guess we've all gotten past that threat, huh?
Funny how when you Google Current socialist members of Congress if comes up with Bernie Sanders an admitted Socialist, and the Congressional Progressive Caucus at the top of the list. HRM A rose by any other name maybe?

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=c ... 20congress
who cares? Socialism is, and has been an accepted part of American political discourse, without anywhere there being any talk of terrorism. What is your point, CUDA? It seems you wish to conflate 'socialist' with 'terrorist', which would be either abyssmally stupid or a lie. Which is it?
"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell---"1984"
User avatar
callmeslick
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 14546
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Rockland,DE and Parksley, VA

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by callmeslick »

Spidey wrote:
Krom wrote:What exactly is a liberal extremist? Would it be like Green Peace suicide bombing China because they pollute the most? Or some priest calling for jihad because the government doesn't spend enough money?
A “liberal extremist” is someone that would take away every individual right you have in the name of the “common good”.
even if we go with this definition, does that mean they are terrorists?
"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell---"1984"
User avatar
Spidey
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10725
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 2:01 am
Location: Earth

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by Spidey »

Well in one sense of the word, you could say so, but no…I was only giving an honest answer to krom.

But no, not in the classic definition of terrorist.

(loss of all liberties in the name of the collective, is a thing that scares me tho)
User avatar
callmeslick
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 14546
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Rockland,DE and Parksley, VA

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by callmeslick »

Spidey wrote:Well in one sense of the word, you could say so, but no…I was only giving an honest answer to krom.

But no, not in the classic definition of terrorist.

(loss of all liberties in the name of the collective, is a thing that scares me tho)
I hang around enough people far more liberal than I, many of them Socialists or the like. Never heard one who espoused losing anything around personal liberities of free speech(although they don't see corporations as persons), free press, free assembly. There are a few who would toss out the 2nd amendment, but beyond that, what liberties and freedoms do you see as threatened for removal?
"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell---"1984"
User avatar
Ferno
DBB Commie Anarchist Thug
DBB Commie Anarchist Thug
Posts: 15028
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 1998 3:01 am

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by Ferno »

Never noticed this before but... EnC and liberals is like gay men and tits.
User avatar
Spidey
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10725
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 2:01 am
Location: Earth

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by Spidey »

Well yea, gun ownership is one of them, but most of the things I can think of are not protected by the constitution…like the right to choose the kind of light bulbs I want to use, or how many gallons of water my toilet will use, what kind of car I can drive, being required to purchase something I don’t want…those kinds of things. Also things like energy prices being driven up on purpose, to force conservation. The list goes on, but it’s late.

I don’t worry too much about our protected rights, it’s all of the rest that are in jeopardy.

Some protected rights are in jeopardy, but that’s a different matter.
User avatar
callmeslick
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 14546
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Rockland,DE and Parksley, VA

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by callmeslick »

so, you won't accept being steered away from incandescent bulbs when it can be shown to benefit the earth, and your fellow men? How noble of you.
"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell---"1984"
User avatar
Spidey
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10725
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 2:01 am
Location: Earth

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by Spidey »

In my house I have no less than half a dozen motion sensor lights in the transitory places like hallways and the porch, etc. These systems are hard wired and have been in place saving money for decades, and they work only with incandescent bulbs.

Then there are the two places where if CFL or LED bulbs are used, people steal them, then there are the dimmers…then there is my Lava Lamp collection…

Now I have tried using CFL for about 5 years now, and I could swear on a stack of bibles, that they actually cost more, and are more harmful to the environment.

And don’t even mention LEDs because I can’t use them because on my eyes.

So you see, everything is not so cut and dry, as you would like to paint the world…and me.
User avatar
callmeslick
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 14546
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Rockland,DE and Parksley, VA

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by callmeslick »

Spidey wrote:In my house I have no less than half a dozen motion sensor lights in the transitory places like hallways and the porch, etc. These systems are hard wired and have been in place saving money for decades, and they work only with incandescent bulbs.

Then there are the two places where if CFL or LED bulbs are used, people steal them, then there are the dimmers…then there is my Lava Lamp collection…
well, hellfire!! Can't be risking your lava lamp collection for the common good, eh?
Now I have tried using CFL for about 5 years now, and I could swear on a stack of bibles, that they actually cost more, and are more harmful to the environment.

And don’t even mention LEDs because I can’t use them because on my eyes.

So you see, everything is not so cut and dry, as you would like to paint the world…and me.
I never meant to suggest that ANYTHING is cut or dried, but simply using your examples, which were selfish and shallow, compared to the massive problem of wasteful use of energy in the US. Still, the bottom line in this discussion is that you really cannot come up with a truly meaningful 'freedom' being threatened in your life, which was sort of my contention all along. If light bulbs are as serious as it gets for you, we're doing pretty well.
"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell---"1984"
User avatar
Spidey
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10725
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 2:01 am
Location: Earth

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by Spidey »

Thank you for presenting the perfect example of my definition.

There are better ways to encourage people to use energy saving devices, where appropriate, then using the blunt hammer approach of banning a light bulb.

Ok fine. Have it your way, I’ll replace the automated systems in my house, and simply leave the hallway lights on all night like I did before, and the porch light will burn for hours a week instead of minutes…etc.

Hope you’re happy, because that’s going to burn more electricity.

You know in the past, most fluorescent lighting in a home was located out of reach of small children, now the government wants you to place this crap in every socket in the house, including the lamp on your table, where its very likely a small child can knock it over break the bulb, and get poisoned by the toxic crap in these bulbs.

But hey, to you they will just be more statistics. (like everything else)

And all the mercury in the landfills will surely help save the planet.
User avatar
callmeslick
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 14546
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Rockland,DE and Parksley, VA

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by callmeslick »

Spidey wrote:Thank you for presenting the perfect example of my definition.

There are better ways to encourage people to use energy saving devices, where appropriate, then using the blunt hammer approach of banning a light bulb.
I don't know what's happening out your way, but I can still buy any incandescent light I choose, except for 100W, which do seem to have disappeared.
You know in the past, most fluorescent lighting in a home was located out of reach of small children, now the government wants you to place this crap in every socket in the house, including the lamp on your table, where its very likely a small child can knock it over break the bulb, and get poisoned by the toxic crap in these bulbs.
I have the same reservations, I just use lower wattage incandescents near the grandkids, personally.

speaking of illustration, the original exchange was around freedoms and rights, and I guess I look to deeper stuff than mere regulations, most of which are in place to protect the public(food, water, etc). At any rate, when someone screams about 'lost freedoms', I tend to think about speech, assembly, and the like. If you wish to focus on light bulbs as your salient example, I guess I'll accept your loss as tangible, but hardly earth-shaking. Consider yourself lucky that you have nothing more major to worry about.
"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell---"1984"
User avatar
Spidey
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10725
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 2:01 am
Location: Earth

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by Spidey »

Boy you really don’t get it…it’s not about the damn light bulbs…it’s about an automation system I installed in this house 2 decades ago to provide convenience and…….listen closely…..ENERGY SAVINGS, that is now in jeopardy of being rendered useless. Back in the day…and still, I was way ahead of the curve on all of the conservation stuff. (but that doesn’t matter to the heavy handed idiots in Washington)

And you have a bad habit of zeroing in on examples given, instead of seeing the bigger picture, if you don’t believe that the thousands of unprotected rights have no value…well that’s your problem.

As I said, I don’t worry much about the protected rights, but that still leaves just about a zillion others to be fucked with.
User avatar
callmeslick
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 14546
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:12 am
Location: Rockland,DE and Parksley, VA

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by callmeslick »

Spidey wrote:Boy you really don’t get it…it’s not about the damn light bulbs…it’s about an automation system I installed in this house 2 decades ago to provide convenience and…….listen closely…..ENERGY SAVINGS, that is now in jeopardy of being rendered useless.
hell, I can think of COUNTLESS things I did 20 years ago for energy efficiency which are now obsolete. Still not getting where your rights have been trampled upon....it isn't like anything you can think of didn't go through YEARS of debate, discourse and decision making.
"The Party told you to reject all evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
George Orwell---"1984"
User avatar
Spidey
DBB Grand Master
DBB Grand Master
Posts: 10725
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2001 2:01 am
Location: Earth

Re: Finally. A voice in the wilderness...

Post by Spidey »

Still missing the bigger point by nit picking my example, but that’s ok, to this particular example, yes I do cherish the right to choose how to illuminate my personal space, and yes many of the unprotected rights I have are important to me…if that makes me shallow and selfish…then so be it.

I have built several dozen different decorative art projects over the years, and they all involve some kind of lighting, and if some bureaucrat ever decides I’m wasting energy by having them…well…that will be the day…

And JFTR as I’m reading this board off and on, I’m also doing an electronic project, here in the assembly room, there are 3 lights two in the celling and one goose neck lamp…all 3 are CFL, and in the adjoining room, where I’m doing the soldering, there are also 3 lights…all of them fluorescent, all by CHOICE.
Post Reply