How many Muslims have you spent time around?

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:57 pm

this is going to be a condensed version of a much longer piece I wrote this past weekend elsewhere, tailored to this format and forum. Basically, I've started pondering the whole blind hatred and fear of Muslims one can see, daily, in the US(media, social media, letters to editors, etc). So, to set the whole thing up, I'll start with the acknowledgment that I have grown, of late, testy and intolerant of the utterly disgusting attitude many Americans show towards Muslims. However, I'm coming to see one of the big reasons as being fear of what one doesn't know(as is most bigotry, hate and the like).
Triggering my thinking was, of all things, a trip with the grandchildren over the past weekend to that most American, crass, commercial of venues: Chuckie Cheese. Many of you know this franchise, and those who have suffered it as I have know that, from an adult standpoint, it's akin to getting a root canal done with a Dremel tool. Anyhow, as I was wandering through the place, searching for middle grandchild, it struck me that there were a total of 7 women in full, head to toe cover, Muslim garb. Like the rest of us, doing very American things with their children and spouses. A couple were African American, but most were clearly of Middle Eastern descent. I then realized that I'd spent my entire adult life in contact with adherents of the Muslim faith, and not one was threatening, insulting to Americans, dismissive of our culture, or anything but kind and peaceful.
I went to college and sophmore year found me with a Shiite neighbor on one side(Iranian) and a Sunni from Saudi Arabia down the hall. My work as a University Senator brought me in contact with others, as both Iran and the Arabian states were sending a lot of young people to the US to study. Likewise, graduate school was populated by a fair number of Saudi grad students in the Life Sciences. As I moved through life, my contacts in the world of horse racing often included folks from the royal family of Dubai, Sunnis all. Good people and fine horsemen as well. My work brought me friends who were Shiite, Sunni and Ba'hai, the latter being the most pacifist folk I've known beyond the Amish. Now, I'm in Delaware, and, as noted, Muslims make up part of the very mixed ethnic fabric of this region, with more Nation of Islam adherents than I've previously known. Thus, to sum up, I've had the great pleasure to know countless Muslims in my life, and befriend quite a few. All were good people, kind people, generous people and no more likely to endorse violence, hatred or anti-American sentiment than anything. And this, despite the fact that some of Middle Eastern descent faced the usual parochial American ugliness at times, and the African American adherents often encounter hate within their own communities. I realize that many Americans likely do NOT have similar life experiences as I. Hell, if I'd lived my whole life down near my family homestead in eastern Virginia, I could have lived to date and be no more likely to encounter Muslims than I would Martians. Perhaps, it is those differences in life experience that explain what I find baffling: the blind hatred, bigotry and ugliness of many Americans towards Muslims.
With that in mind, I open the floor to any of you all to detail the extent your life has been spent in true contact and discourse with Muslims. Anyone?

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:23 pm

Several Muslims working and protect my country house. It's not all Muslims are extremists. I can give you advice if you want to take to his job Muslims. This method of carrot and stick. And you need a whip to swing more often than the carrot. For them, never show weakness, and they need to feel that you are one of them. They will be brought to you as long as you respect them and have power over them. Although, with the Russian workers in any case, you can not talk the same way as with the Muslims. It's just dangerous.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:28 pm

I was sort of hoping for more American experiences, sigma, but thanks, although I'm not quite sure what you're attempting to say there.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:54 pm

Example. If you want to establish a rapport with your employees. For Muslim worker will must first to show a whip, and then give the cake. For the Russian worker, you must first give the cake, and then show the whip.

vision · Post by **vision** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:41 pm

I'll try and keep it brief. My personal experiences with Muslims left me with divided feelings. Here are three cases.

Case 1: The Student. A little over a decade ago I was taking classes at the local college. There were quite a few traditional Muslims there, one was an adorable young lady who would chat with me after class. Small talk at first, but our conversations quickly became intellectual and engaging, so engaging that we would wind up standing in the parking lot through sub-freezing weather much too long because we didn't want to stop talking. This went on the whole semester. Every one of our conversations ended with her feeling guilty. One time we talked for over an hour, the kind of intellectual, cross-cultural talk you fantasize about, full of deep respect and understanding, and she left saying "I hate it. I'm not allowed to talk to boys. Now I have to go home and lie to my mother again and say I was late because I was talking about religion with my girlfriends." Every time we saw each other I was left with a deep craving to learn more about her life. The last day of class was the hardest. We just kind of said "goodbye." It was over. We wouldn't see each other again. We couldn't call or email. She couldn't be seen with me. All those times we talked by my car felt sinful to her, constantly looking over her shoulder to make sure one of her brothers or a friend didn't walk by and see us together.

Case 2: The Scientist. Last year I was dating a girl from Syria. Beautiful woman. Amazing cook. Super smart. Employed as a scientist working in bio-tech here in Southern California. She was a moderate Muslim. She didn't wear a hijab. She had a statue of Buddha in her apartment. And, she had major emotional issues because of her family. They constantly berated and tried to control her throughout her entire life. She was 23 before she kissed a boy, 31 when she lost her virginity. Her brother refused to keep up a relationship because of her moderate stance, telling her how far she has fallen from God and occasionally sending Korans in the mail. Her parents were hardly better. Sometimes she would cry and hate God because of how isolated she felt because of her family and religion.

Case 3: The Gangsters. The company I work for rents equipment to a group of Somali guys. They always enter the building with flash and flair, always decked out in nice clothes, gold jewelry, expensive tech, etc. They act like royalty. And, they are loud, loud, loud. Always yelling at people on their cell phones, acting like a bunch of mafia bosses. Always on edge. One time they were being quite rude to others and another customer asked them to chill-out, which almost turned into a skirmish (like, I had my hand on the phone receiver ready to call the police). I look at these guys and remember the Muslim women I've known and think "You. You and your patriarchal religious bull★■◆● have damaged some beautiful women. You are scumbags."

So what do I think of Muslims? It's not Islam I have a problem with necessarily, but patriarchy, though it does seem more pronounced in Muslim communities. I want to make the case that Muslims "are just like everyone else" but that's not entirely true. There are deep cultural problems that need to be addressed. And that's pretty much all I have to say at this point.

Sergeant Thorne · Post by **Sergeant Thorne** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:46 pm

I can't say I've had much contact with any, aside from seeing them here and there in a public setting. There seem to be a lot more Eastern Indians around here than Arab/Muslims.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:26 pm

In high school two new friends joined out group. Two cousins from Lebanon.
After a year or so they began arguing about ones desire to return to his homeland to fight and the others insistence that they were Americans now and should stay there and be happy for their good fortune.
One went back and died in the struggle in Beirut soon after. One is a very proud Texas conservative.

I probably know a lot more than the average American due to the circles my family moved within but none of my anecdotal experience has any bearing on or provides any special insight to what is happening to millions I don't know in the rest of the world. All of them being affected to some degree or another by the fallout from the terrorism of Muslim radicals who have become so powerful and prolific that the whole of Islam is becoming guilty by association.

The lines of distinction between the radicals and the friendlies are blurred by their culture (see visions 'complaint' for one example) giving the radicals far too much leeway and for us to be stretching some thin veil of political correctness beyond its already thin state to try and shield them from the fallout is not a positive solution but rather prolonging the inevitable process that is unfolding. Islam has to cull the herd to remove the diseased cows or the grazing lands will be fenced off more and more and the herd will suffer for it because the disease will spread.

Flabby Chick · Post by **Flabby Chick** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:00 am

Thousands. I have a coffee with a Muslim every day at 5am, my 4x4 was recently fixed by a Muslim. Ten muinets ago i bought feta cheese and cucumber for breakfast from a beutiful Muslim woman who's eldest kid my wife looks after in the local kindergarten. My eldest daughter was delivered by Muslim nurses yet it was a Muslim that killed two of her classmates last summer.

I'm not really a good example of what you want though, Cam.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:31 am

I worked with one for about a year. She was from northern Iran. (pronounced ee-r-Aun the "r" is lightly rolled and almost sounds like a D ...more like a Japanese r.)

Tara used to tell me that the people that lived in Tehran were crazy. She was by all accounts, a moderate and a very sweet lady. We had many long talks and came to understand each others cultures and religions much better. I wouldn't have traded that experience for anything.

If she had blown up half my neighborhood, I probably would have felt differently about her.

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:12 am

callmeslick wrote:this is going to be a condensed version of a much longer piece I wrote this past weekend elsewhere, tailored to this format and forum. Basically, I've started pondering the whole blind hatred and fear of Muslims one can see, daily, in the US(media, social media, letters to editors, etc). So, to set the whole thing up, I'll start with the acknowledgment that I have grown, of late, testy and intolerant of the utterly disgusting attitude many Americans show towards Muslims. However, I'm coming to see one of the big reasons as being fear of what one doesn't know(as is most bigotry, hate and the like).
Triggering my thinking was, of all things, a trip with the grandchildren over the past weekend to that most American, crass, commercial of venues: Chuckie Cheese. Many of you know this franchise, and those who have suffered it as I have know that, from an adult standpoint, it's akin to getting a root canal done with a Dremel tool. Anyhow, as I was wandering through the place, searching for middle grandchild, it struck me that there were a total of 7 women in full, head to toe cover, Muslim garb. Like the rest of us, doing very American things with their children and spouses. A couple were African American, but most were clearly of Middle Eastern descent. I then realized that I'd spent my entire adult life in contact with adherents of the Muslim faith, and not one was threatening, insulting to Americans, dismissive of our culture, or anything but kind and peaceful.
I went to college and sophmore year found me with a Shiite neighbor on one side(Iranian) and a Sunni from Saudi Arabia down the hall. My work as a University Senator brought me in contact with others, as both Iran and the Arabian states were sending a lot of young people to the US to study. Likewise, graduate school was populated by a fair number of Saudi grad students in the Life Sciences. As I moved through life, my contacts in the world of horse racing often included folks from the royal family of Dubai, Sunnis all. Good people and fine horsemen as well. My work brought me friends who were Shiite, Sunni and Ba'hai, the latter being the most pacifist folk I've known beyond the Amish. Now, I'm in Delaware, and, as noted, Muslims make up part of the very mixed ethnic fabric of this region, with more Nation of Islam adherents than I've previously known. Thus, to sum up, I've had the great pleasure to know countless Muslims in my life, and befriend quite a few. All were good people, kind people, generous people and no more likely to endorse violence, hatred or anti-American sentiment than anything. And this, despite the fact that some of Middle Eastern descent faced the usual parochial American ugliness at times, and the African American adherents often encounter hate within their own communities. I realize that many Americans likely do NOT have similar life experiences as I. Hell, if I'd lived my whole life down near my family homestead in eastern Virginia, I could have lived to date and be no more likely to encounter Muslims than I would Martians. Perhaps, it is those differences in life experience that explain what I find baffling: the blind hatred, bigotry and ugliness of many Americans towards Muslims.
With that in mind, I open the floor to any of you all to detail the extent your life has been spent in true contact and discourse with Muslims. Anyone?

In other words, slick is just trying to point out that 'muslims are human beings just as we are...' Well no sh*t sherlock.

While this is true- one must remember that human beings are still animals and are still just as capable to act as or more savagely than other animals living on our planet- needing ONLY the JUSTIFICATION to do so.

vision wrote:I look at these guys and remember the Muslim women I've known and think "You. You and your patriarchal religious **** have damaged some beautiful women. You are scumbags."

So what do I think of Muslims? It's not Islam I have a problem with necessarily, but patriarchy, though it does seem more pronounced in Muslim communities. I want to make the case that Muslims "are just like everyone else" but that's not entirely true. There are deep cultural problems that need to be addressed. And that's pretty much all I have to say at this point.

That is where you are wrong, Vision. Islam has a problem with anyone that isn't muslim- which most likely means YOU.

The problem isn't that muslims are 'monsters' or savage beasts. The problem is islam. It provides a justification for patriarchy- but in an especially violent and oppressive way. It also seeks to destroy all who do not submit or pay its extortion or 'protection money' - in whatever form that takes.

As for my anecdotes about 'living amongst and encountering muslims' - I have them as well...but they're not exactly illustrative of the real problem of islam- which slick is probably trying to obfuscate for the same sick and farcical reason that leftists embrace this otherwise fanatical and fascist ideology.

To slick and most committed (and they should be committed) leftists- everything is relative...nobody is better than anyone else EVEN if it means you're a murdering rapist SO long as you have a 'cultural' justification and can be classified as a 'victim' of some other (preferably western) culture.

woodchip · Post by **woodchip** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:55 am

The problem here is one of perception. When all you see and hear are barbaric acts by Muslims, no matter how many decent Muslims you know, your viewpoint is dragged through the dirt and subconsciously you view all Muslims as evil. Until we start seeing positive acts by Muslims to counter the evil acts then I'm afraid many people will continue to vilify Muslims and see the whole as something to hate.

The question I would ask is how many times have you heard decent Muslims denouncing the bad apples in the strongest terms possible.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:09 am

Flabby Chick wrote:I'm not really a good example of what you want though, Cam.

as I stated to Sigma, I was aiming this towards Americans, where one sees a bizarre level of hatred, disrespect and sheer stupidity. I WAS, however, hoping to hear your perspective as I suspected that you, of all folks on the board, would have the most regular contact with Middle Eastern Muslims, Flabby. Thanks.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:12 am

woodchip wrote:The problem here is one of perception. When all you see and hear are barbaric acts by Muslims, no matter how many decent Muslims you know, your viewpoint is dragged through the dirt and subconsciously you view all Muslims as evil. Until we start seeing positive acts by Muslims to counter the evil acts then I'm afraid many people will continue to vilify Muslims and see the whole as something to hate.

The question I would ask is how many times have you heard decent Muslims denouncing the bad apples in the strongest terms possible.

often, to that last part, and as for the first part: if all you do is 'hear' about barbarism by Muslims, then you have no clue about Muslims. You are merely a tool of your handlers feeding you the information.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:25 am

callmeslick wrote:
Flabby Chick wrote:I'm not really a good example of what you want though, Cam.
as I stated to Sigma, I was aiming this towards Americans, where one sees a bizarre level of hatred, disrespect and sheer stupidity. I WAS, however, hoping to hear your perspective as I suspected that you, of all folks on the board, would have the most regular contact with Middle Eastern Muslims, Flabby. Thanks.

Slick I think your perspective about Americans is just as skewed as the one you think you are trying to expose. Yes you can find hatred but you seem to think it is as wide spread as your rhetoric would lead you to believe.
You shouldn't drink the Kool-aid you are selling....

People are complex enough to recognize that Muslims are just like we are and also understand Islam is very fertile ground for growing deadly radicals. If you want to pick a single religion or political ideology that will enable you to subjugate women and the meak believers, reach out and kill outsiders, etc. it's pick Islam for the win.

Islamofacists in control of whole nations or other large groups of them entrenched within populations in regions full of political strife are creating enough trouble to cause wars to launch. Now go find how many wars were launched because of homicidal Danes or Spanish separatists as your other thread tried to highlight as the 'more real' terrorists...

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:36 am

Will Robinson wrote: Slick I think your perspective about Americans is just as skewed as the one you think you are trying to expose. Yes you can find hatred but you seem to think it is as wide spread as your rhetoric would lead you to believe.

perhaps, Will, you are correct. I guess the effect might be magnified on places like FB, where the loudest screamers just come at you constantly. However, there do seem to be a lot of haters out there chiming in.

Islamofacists in control of whole nations or other large groups of them entrenched within populations in regions full of political strife are creating enough trouble to cause wars to launch. Now go find how many wars were launched because of homicidal Danes or Spanish separatists as your other thread tried to highlight as the 'more real' terrorists...

those groups have been at 'war' in Europe for decades, will. You seem to focus on the wars that the US jumps into.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:34 am

callmeslick wrote:
Will Robinson wrote: Slick I think your perspective about Americans is just as skewed as the one you think you are trying to expose. Yes you can find hatred but you seem to think it is as wide spread as your rhetoric would lead you to believe.
perhaps, Will, you are correct. I guess the effect might be magnified on places like FB, where the loudest screamers just come at you constantly. However, there do seem to be a lot of haters out there chiming in.
Islamofacists in control of whole nations or other large groups of them entrenched within populations in regions full of political strife are creating enough trouble to cause wars to launch. Now go find how many wars were launched because of homicidal Danes or Spanish separatists as your other thread tried to highlight as the 'more real' terrorists...
those groups have been at 'war' in Europe for decades, will. You seem to focus on the wars that the US jumps into.

No, I'm saying the radical foundation of Islam leads to more violence and oppression of people thus resulting in more wars. So when you count how many more non muslim terrorists blew up a train in Spain or something and hold that up in a vacuum as evidence that radical Islamic terrorists are less threatening over all you are missing the big picture that brought the focus onto the backs of Islam at large. You have to consider the scope and momentum of radical Islam vs. spontaneous nutbags with a rifle.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:13 am

Will, you need to enlighten yourself about reality. Spanish separatists are hardly a few nutjobs with rifles.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:09 pm

callmeslick wrote:Will, you need to enlighten yourself about reality. Spanish separatists are hardly a few nutjobs with rifles.

How many wars/hotspots in the globe have they been involved in? You are doing your typical dodge-the-point routine. I cited the scope of the threat and you immediately try to resume equivocating.
I just searched a couple of different hotspot/conflict map sources and found no mention of Spanish separatists threat. A search for the words: "Spanish separatists threat" turns up the struggle via voting for autonomy...no headlines of carnage...

Trying "muslim terrorist threat" has the most recent mass killing and reference to numerous threats around the world.

You do the math, once you finish your dance...

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:41 pm

Will Robinson wrote:
callmeslick wrote:Will, you need to enlighten yourself about reality. Spanish separatists are hardly a few nutjobs with rifles.
How many wars/hotspots in the globe have they been involved in?

one, and it has resulted in multiple bombings, shooting and considerable loss of life. Then, take ALL the separatist movements in Europe, which was, of course, the entire thrust of the article, and Muslim acts of terror are trivial by comparison. You don't really read well for comprehension, do you?

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:15 pm

funny, I thought the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were significant. Were they spurred by Spanish separatists or Islamic terrorism?
Seems to me the Congress was very outspoken about why we went there...they said it was terrorists of the radical Islamic type at the core of the problem.

Is the ongoing fight between Israel and the Iran's proxy terrorists in Lebanon and Syria caused by non-muslim separatists?
The stuff going on in northern and middle Africa? Etc. Etc.

Is there any fear that Spanish terrorists are about to build nuclear weapons?

You see, there is the reason the world has defaulted to Islam being the root of the word 'terrorist', because the islamo-fascists are quite prolific in that field of endeavor. Spaniards and suicidal shooters are sort of insignificant by comparison, unless you are crafting some knee jerk rhetoric out of nonsense that is.

That is the big difference as I've pointed out now a few times. The net result of Radical Islam is magnitudes more dangerous to the world than the stuff you are talking about. You keep trying to ignore the distinction.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:38 pm

Will Robinson wrote:funny, I thought the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were significant. Were they spurred by Spanish separatists or Islamic terrorism?

no, they were started by us. Afghanistan didn't attack us, people on their soil did. We chose to start a war over it. Tell me why Muslims, terrorists or otherwise, had a damned thing to do with being in Iraq?

Is there any fear that Spanish terrorists are about to build nuclear weapons?

there have been, and likely still are quite real fears about Basque separatists obtaining radioactive materials, so, yes.

keep swinging, Will. You'll hit one someday.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:42 pm

callmeslick wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:funny, I thought the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were significant. Were they spurred by Spanish separatists or Islamic terrorism?
no, they were started by us. Afghanistan didn't attack us, people on their soil did. We chose to start a war over it. Tell me why Muslims, terrorists or otherwise, had a damned thing to do with being in Iraq?

I could tell you but I'd rather cite some of your favorite leaders:

The resolution backed by Reid, Biden, Clinton, Kerry and other Democratic Senate leaders also claimed that "the risk that the current Iraqi regime will either employ those weapons to launch a surprise attack against the United States ... or provide them to international terrorists who would do so … combine to justify action by the United States to defend itself."

callmeslick wrote:
Will Robinson wrote:Is there any fear that Spanish terrorists are about to build nuclear weapons?
there have been, and likely still are quite real fears about Basque separatists obtaining radioactive materials, so, yes.

keep swinging, Will. You'll hit one someday.

That is laughable!
Do a search on Spanish terrorists and nuclear weapons...then do the same with Islamic or Muslim terrorists and nuclear weapons....then tell me I'm wrong suggesting the world sees Islam as a much bigger threat.

You have no shame. You have no respect for the intelligence of people reading your words and I pity the few fools who feel compelled to try and bail you out each time you back yourself into the corner this way by refusing to accept the facts.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:46 pm

first off, I don't hold Democratic pols blameless for needless hysteria. Second, a google search yields news results, which,as the author noted, in the other piece I cited are wildly skewed against Muslim extremists. Now, don't get me wrong, Muslim extremists ARE a danger, but hardly the only dangerous extremists out there by a longshot. And, limiting to the US, far-right extremists are far more common and dangerous. However, the hysteria from Americans, of which you've seemed to be one, and TB definitely has been one, is laughable, and I suspect spread by the ignorance that comes with extremely limited contact.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:58 pm

I note that thus far only 3 Americans have shed ANY insight into details that I was asking about. The usual suspects have spent the bulk of the time demonstrating that ignorance is bliss.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:37 pm

That's one of the reasons why I was hesitant to reply to this thread, Slick. Once I saw it, and what you wrote I just went "oh boy, here's a powder-keg waiting to go off". And i'm still having major trepidations about it.

There was one Muslim I spent time with. Young man, full of energy and drive. He had to be one of the most decent and kind people I've ever met in my life. I never had the chance to get to know him well because he moved away within six months of me meeting him. Honestly, I felt more comfortable around him than most other people.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:04 pm

callmeslick wrote:... And, limiting to the US, far-right extremists are far more common and dangerous. ...

And limiting it to try and find some kind of way to pull a win out of your sphincter is not really an honest contribution to the discussion. But hell, that never stopped you before.

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:24 pm

will, stop trying to turn this into a fight.

CUDA · Post by **CUDA** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:27 am

Several.
I also have a good Egyptian friend who is a Coptic Christian. He has very little good to say about "most" Muslims. In fact, his mother is still living in Egypt, and he fears for her life daily. He left Egypt because of the persecution and for the safety of his wife and children. So I tend to give more weight to the opinion of a man that lived it, then those of us that interact with our "westernized" Muslims

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:15 am

several of the people I've worked with were emigres also, CUDA, so every bit as much direct experience as your friend, who is still viewing them through the lens of a non-believer, but thanks for the insight. Further pondering last night had me realizing this: all of the folks I laid out are, to a great degree, affluent. The folks in my college were very well connected, the folks I met in grad school and later at work are high-tech professionals, largely, and even the Nation of Islam folks I know are similarly employed. The folks I know from Dubai are, well, in a ballpark NONE of us will ever approach(I remember reading somewhere that during the peak of oil prices, that family, consisting of a few hundred people, was making over $2 million PER HOUR). Thus, I'll put this out there: maybe the real issue around terrorism is ECONOMIC. Sure, the founders of Al Queda were quite well off, and well educated, but they numbered but a dozen or two. You can't really disrupt much with that small a group, they needed foot soldiers to do the dirty work. That is where economics comes in because it seems to me that the VAST bulk of recruits are poor, disenfranchised young men. And, history shows, a mass of poor young men, further inflamed by massive gaps in wealth in their societies, are the recipe for violence, revolution and overall mayhem.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:41 am

callmeslick wrote:
Flabby Chick wrote:I'm not really a good example of what you want though, Cam.
as I stated to Sigma, I was aiming this towards Americans, where one sees a bizarre level of hatred, disrespect and sheer stupidity. I WAS, however, hoping to hear your perspective as I suspected that you, of all folks on the board, would have the most regular contact with Middle Eastern Muslims

I do not communicate with the Muslims of the Middle East every day, I communicate with the Muslims of Russia and CIS every day. 99% of them - is the orthodox Muslims. Muslims who are new arrivals from the Middle East, always easy to identify in their eyes. They always have pronounced spark of a Muslim extremist branch of Islam in their eyes
I'm surprised that you are not concerned about the prosperity an extremist Islam among the black population of the USA

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:58 am

once again, Sigma, you've descending into idiotic statements like, 'the look of their eyes' and talk about things of which I know far better than you. The American Black Muslim movement, like any group, has extremists, but have caused very litte by way of violent actions here.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:23 am

callmeslick wrote:... Thus, I'll put this out there: maybe the real issue around terrorism is ECONOMIC. ....

You just now figured that out?!? And, based on this thread and others, you are still struggling with the inherent flaws in using anecdotal evidence to support a hypothesis (or to prop up a premise for a troll thread).

You aren't looking for a discussion to your test ideas, you are looking for a DBB wall to spray paint your mental mastrubation on.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:25 am

Will Robinson wrote:
callmeslick wrote:... Thus, I'll put this out there: maybe the real issue around terrorism is ECONOMIC. ....
You just now figured that out?!? And, based on this thread and others, you are still struggling with the inherent flaws in using anecdotal evidence to support a hypothesis (or to prop up a premise for a troll thread).

You aren't looking for a discussion to your test ideas, you are looking for a DBB wall to spray paint your mental mastrubation on.

nice, and why do you spend the time you do blaming Muslims? Or, why can't you respond to any thread without personal remarks about me, my intentions(guesswork on your part, wrong at all times)?

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:43 am

callmeslick wrote:...

nice, and why do you spend the time you do blaming Muslims?...

I don't blame 'muslims at large', I simply don't refrain from blaming the radical Islamic component behind the most aggressive and threatening source of world wide terrorism. A distinction you need to ignore to make that charge. I'm willing to point out the cultural component that sustains that radicalism. And I point out people like you who say the silliest things trying to blur the lines of distinction.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:46 am

you've proven no cultural component at all, based on facts. Just your own opinons.

Will Robinson · Post by **Will Robinson** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:51 pm

Actually I referred you to visions complaint about the patriarchal nature of muslim culture. And that isnt something that you should need to be made aware of, but apparently you either do need that lesson, or you are once again being obtuse in an attempt to hold on to a defense of your weak argument. I think both is likely because you dont usually know much about what you talk about. You usually only know/cite that which your party's rhetoric has spun up for your consumption.

When you try to come up with something on your own it is really weak. Like when you offered the completely ridiculous assertion that Basque separatists are as much of a potential danger to use nuclear weapons as Islamic terrorists are! Try searching for Basque and nuclear and you find a few results decades old.

Search Islamic and nuclear and you see the wide world and how millions have been moved to action because of that threat or the spectre of that threat. You see the worlds politics churning it up in reaction to that scenario.

Your answer to that is it's all a media conspiracy to...well, to what? To downplay the threat of Basque terrorism?!? lol! Nothing to downplay and why would the media want to squash that story if it were out there?
To hype the threat of terrorism from Islamic sources? Hardly any need to hype their activity...they are churning out fresh meat daily!

No, the Basque "threat" is history. It is now a political faction fighting with words on election day. You had nothing there, you grabbed it from your memory...a few decades too late.

In fact the premise you introduced of "all european separatists combined" being an equal threat to radical Islamic terrorists is weak as well because separatist/ terrorists aren't interested in creating a world wide Caliphate. At the worst they seek independence from the country that claims them as citizens. They wont be trucking dirty bombs over US borders even if they do get the stuff. They wont be dishing out violence far from their desired homeland.

Take the Palestinians for example. You wont see them bombing western cities. Their puppet masters however, Iran, takes the fight in the name of Allah out into the world at large.
The threat from separatists is localized relative to that of Islamofascism.

You can dance around it all you want but the tune is boring and the steps are predictable and lifeless.

sigma · Post by **sigma** » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:07 pm

Will Robinson wrote:
callmeslick wrote:...

nice, and why do you spend the time you do blaming Muslims?...
I don't blame 'muslims at large', I simply don't refrain from blaming the radical Islamic component behind the most aggressive and threatening source of world wide terrorism. A distinction you need to ignore to make that charge. I'm willing to point out the cultural component that sustains that radicalism. And I point out people like you who say the silliest things trying to blur the lines of distinction.

Have you forgotten what I said earlier. In Russia, Islamic extremism is missing because Russia is their homeland for hundreds of centuries. And people of different nationalities and religions here have long been able to find a common language. 99% of Muslim extremists in Russia are newcomers or immigrants

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:17 am

In other words, slick is just trying to point out that 'muslims are human beings just as we are...' Well no sh*t sherlock.

The problem isn't that muslims are 'monsters' or savage beasts. The problem is islam. It provides a justification for patriarchy- but in an especially violent and oppressive way. It also seeks to destroy all who do not submit or pay its extortion or 'protection money' - in whatever form that takes.

As for my anecdotes about 'living amongst and encountering muslims' - I have them as well...but they're not exactly illustrative of the real problem of islam- which slick is probably trying to obfuscate for the same sick and farcical reason that leftists embrace this otherwise fanatical and fascist ideology.

To slick and most committed (and they should be committed) leftists- everything is relative...nobody is better than anyone else EVEN if it means you're a murdering rapist SO long as you have a 'cultural' justification and can be classified as a 'victim' of some other (preferably western) culture.

So slick has decided to avoid responding. Typical.

callmeslick · Post by **callmeslick** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:36 pm

not failing to respond, just trying to avoid the usual downward spiral of the DBB. Frankly, Will's comments were the usual guesswork around 'slick is really doing x,y,z'. I emphasize the word guesswork. He is wrong. So, if you have something to add, beyond a hominems aimed at me, TB, go to it. Otherwise, I have better stuff to do.

Nightshade · Post by **Nightshade** » Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:44 pm

callmeslick wrote:not failing to respond, just trying to avoid the usual downward spiral of the DBB. Frankly, Will's comments were the usual guesswork around 'slick is really doing x,y,z'. I emphasize the word guesswork. He is wrong. So, if you have something to add, beyond a hominems aimed at me, TB, go to it. Otherwise, I have better stuff to do.

Well did I get it right? 'muslims are people too?'

That's what you were trying to say, no?

The motives behind this assertion are in question- not the fact that muslims are human.