Vander wrote:How about those that want to post about politics and religion continue to use this forum as it has been used for the past 15 years, and those that don't... don't?
Then you're going to have more polarized posts/shitposts. Do you want that? Political/religious threads are by their very nature polarizing, and not everyone has the same amount of self control you are hoping they have. You know this.
were a heck of a lot more people on the board back then
Do you know why they left? It's precisely because of the amount of extremely charged political/religious posts that were made that caused them to leave.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:12 pm
by Vander
Polarizing topics are the topics most worth discussing!
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:13 am
by sigma
[Deleted]
Cause? Who deleted?
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:57 am
by Ferno
Vander wrote:Polarizing topics are the topics most worth discussing!
Now I know you're joking.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:29 am
by Vander
Not at all. I enjoy discussing contentious topics. And discussing contentious topics is more meaningful when done with those with different or opposing perspectives. For the most part, I'm trying to understand things, to challenge my opinion or preconseptions. My opinion isn't some delicate thing I'm trying to protect from change. If my opinion changes, it's still my opinion!
Sure, thoughtful discussions require thoughtful participation. That doesn't always happen, but it does happen! And I think it's worth wading through the times it doesn't for the times it does.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:04 pm
by callmeslick
well put, Vander.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:58 pm
by Ferno
Vander, I never said anything about contentious posts. I'm talking about polarizing topics; the ones specifically written to provoke outrage and only have responses that drag the discussion down to elementary-level thinking. I understand what you want, but it strikes me as a bit naiive - especially in this current climate.
There are a lot of topics out there that have contentious content that don't include politics or religion, including a lot of philosophical topics and current-event topics. We can have discussions about the ethical ramifications of the current events in Yemen; speculate what might happen if it goes one direction or another. We can have a discussion of the ethics of war in Afghanistan and weigh the differences of the situation. What I'm saying is we should not allow topics like 'Herr Orangefurher is the antichrist!' or other political/religious topics that lead up to low-brow responses like that.
I'm also wondering why you would want to wade through pools of sewage to find an ice cream in the muck.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:08 pm
by Vander
Ferno wrote:Vander, I never said anything about contentious posts. I'm talking about polarizing topics; the ones specifically written to provoke outrage and only have responses that drag the discussion down to elementary-level thinking. I understand what you want, but it strikes me as a bit naiive - especially in this current climate.
What's naive? Do you think you're magically going to get thoughtful participation from someone who isn't already trying to participate thoughtfully? This place is what the participants make of it. Every ridiculous post has at least some related nugget that's worthy of thoughtful discussion. Show some self control and respect, even if you aren't receiving any, and focus on that. Try to coax a discussion out of it. Put into a thread what you want to get out of it. If you can't do that, then simply don't respond to the thread. Let someone else try to make something of it. Maybe the discussion will lead to a place where you would feel like contributing. It probably won't, but it might! I don't always follow these guidelines myself, but I do try.
Anyways, I'm against any major changes as to what's allowed to be posted here. I'm ok with removing personal shots, but I'm less ok with closing threads. If any change were to be made, I'd only suggest that the first post of a thread include words actually written by the poster to start the discussion.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:51 pm
by Tunnelcat
Vander wrote:...Anyways, I'm against any major changes as to what's allowed to be posted here. I'm ok with removing personal shots, but I'm less ok with closing threads. If any change were to be made, I'd only suggest that the first post of a thread include words actually written by the poster to start the discussion.
I depends if the deleted thread is nothing but a moronic hit piece meant to insult or rile up a certain person or a group of people, or if the discussion has turned into an insult party between a couple of people. And yes, that is at the discretion of the moderator. As for a couple of the ones I've deleted, I asked the higher ups here about it first just to learn what to look for (some where quite apparent), while several others were deleted by one of the other mods for most likely the same reasons.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:30 am
by sigma
Tunnelcat, you please do not do so this site has turned into nothing.
I have already said that often when women give the right of the administrator, it is almost suicidal for the site. You emotional, but you're too smart to do such a nonsense.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:14 pm
by Tunnelcat
Talking about killing or murdering people you dislike is not a discussion topic sigma, at least here (as far as I've been told ). If the administrators want to change that, I'll gladly allow what they want.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:24 pm
by sigma
Without the slightest doubt I will kill as many as need, for example, if there was an attack on my family.
But now, we are talking about the administration of websites. Indeed, may be lately I am particularly lucky with the girls silly-admins. But you're not quite like a stupid blonde.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:34 pm
by sigma
sigma wrote:[Deleted]
Again
Cause? And who deleted?
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:25 pm
by sigma
Clear.
You want to live in some your religion.
You can think of anything, but lately you are becoming less and less necessary. And I say this with great regret. All the same we're too different.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:21 pm
by Ferno
Vander wrote:
Ferno wrote:Vander, I never said anything about contentious posts. I'm talking about polarizing topics; the ones specifically written to provoke outrage and only have responses that drag the discussion down to elementary-level thinking. I understand what you want, but it strikes me as a bit naiive - especially in this current climate.
What's naive? Do you think you're magically going to get thoughtful participation from someone who isn't already trying to participate thoughtfully? This place is what the participants make of it. Every ridiculous post has at least some related nugget that's worthy of thoughtful discussion. Show some self control and respect, even if you aren't receiving any, and focus on that. Try to coax a discussion out of it. Put into a thread what you want to get out of it. If you can't do that, then simply don't respond to the thread. Let someone else try to make something of it. Maybe the discussion will lead to a place where you would feel like contributing. It probably won't, but it might! I don't always follow these guidelines myself, but I do try.
Anyways, I'm against any major changes as to what's allowed to be posted here. I'm ok with removing personal shots, but I'm less ok with closing threads. If any change were to be made, I'd only suggest that the first post of a thread include words actually written by the poster to start the discussion.
So what happens if no one can try and make something out of it? The reason it's naiive is because you're asking the rest of us to take attack threads and try to polish them into something meaningful. You're trying to justify polishing a turd, and you know that can't happen. It's a pipe dream and it's unrealistic.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:13 pm
by Vander
Ferno wrote:So what happens if no one can try and make something out of it?
It dies on the vine?
The reason it's naiive is because you're asking the rest of us to take attack threads and try to polish them into something meaningful. You're trying to justify polishing a turd, and you know that can't happen. It's a pipe dream and it's unrealistic.
I'm not asking anything of anyone. I'm sorry if you find free speech messy or infuriating or exhausting. You've suggested a change to what is allowed to be posted here. I disagree. I have said my peace.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:40 pm
by Tunnelcat
sigma wrote:
sigma wrote:[Deleted]
Again
Cause? And who deleted?
Simple. Bragging about wanting to kill people because of their religion or nationality is not considered a point of discussion here. If you hate them, OK, rant all you want. But wanting to murder or kill people, as far as I understand the rules, is not something we typically discuss here. If the administrators want to allow that on this board, then they can tell the mods it's an OK topic and to be hands off with the delete function. So far, no comment one way or another.
sigma wrote:Without the slightest doubt I will kill as many as need, for example, if there was an attack on my family.
But now, we are talking about the administration of websites. Indeed, may be lately I am particularly lucky with the girls silly-admins. But you're not quite like a stupid blonde.
If your family is being attacked, that's different. People have the right to defend themselves. However, that's not what you said. You just said you wanted to kill Muslims. There are several people here that would want to do that very same thing, but they don't brag about it here. So is your family under attack by Muslims, or were you just bragging about your prowess with the Kalashnikov?
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:56 pm
by sigma
I would like to have your optimism. Because Moscow is full of Asians who just attack people for no reason. The police reacts well, but in one area Asians have completely bought the police, and another areas still there is the real police.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:05 pm
by Krom
Tunnelcat wrote:So far, no comment one way or another.
If you want an admin to sign off on it, count me in.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:24 pm
by sigma
Krom wrote:
Tunnelcat wrote:So far, no comment one way or another.
If you want an admin to sign off on it, count me in.
Thank you, Krom)
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:07 pm
by Tunnelcat
Krom wrote:
Tunnelcat wrote:So far, no comment one way or another.
If you want an admin to sign off on it, count me in.
Good to know Krom. I think bragging about killing people for any reason is definitely not a topic of discussion. I just wanted to make sure I didn't overreact with my moderator duties.
sigma, I'm sorry you have those problems in your country. You can talk about it all you like, but murder and killing is out, at least here. It is interesting to hear about your everyday life in Russia since we rarely get any detailed information about Russian life from an actual citizen who lives there.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:47 pm
by sigma
Tunnelcat wrote:
Krom wrote:
Tunnelcat wrote:sigma, I'm sorry you have those problems in your country. You can talk about it all you like, but murder and killing is out, at least here. It is interesting to hear about your everyday life in Russia since we rarely get any detailed information about Russian life from an actual citizen who lives there.
With all due respect to you.
Can be to think about the drug trafficking from South America and Afghanistan, supplying weapons to Syrian and Ukrainian terrorists? Maybe you need to think about something more profound?
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:10 pm
by Ferno
Vander wrote:It dies on the vine?
One would hope so, but in this case, it's more like ragweed - especially in this charged climate. It could be possible one day, but it's definitely not this day.
I'm not asking anything of anyone. I'm sorry if you find free speech messy or infuriating or exhausting. You've suggested a change to what is allowed to be posted here. I disagree. I have said my peace.
I find free speech infuriating/exhausting? That's a little overblown, don't you think? And to imply bulletin boards should let anything be discussed because of free speech? That's a bit like saying you should be allowed to shout fire in a theatre because free speech. It's silly. Free speech is the prevention of government arresting you and jailing you for saying something unfavorable towards them.
And not asking anything of anyone? Yes you are. You are asking us to take shitposts and turn them into something meaningful. You're asking us to essentially stay in South Park's version of ChatRouette to find something decent in the sea of wang.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:56 pm
by Vander
Ferno wrote:I find free speech infuriating/exhausting? That's a little overblown, don't you think?
I think it's apt. You don't like some of what is being posted here and are trying to get it restricted, no?
And to imply bulletin boards should let anything be discussed because of free speech? That's a bit like saying you should be allowed to shout fire in a theatre because free speech. It's silly. Free speech is the prevention of government arresting you and jailing you for saying something unfavorable towards them.
Huh? "Free speech" is a concept protected by, not created by, government statutes. I'm fully aware that First Amendment protections (or whatever Canada has) are not applicable here. But that does not mean the concept of "free speech" is irrelevant in the construction posting rules.
And not asking anything of anyone? Yes you are. You are asking us to take shitposts and turn them into something meaningful.
As far as I'm concerned, you can do whatever you want. Consider this me NOT asking you to contribute to posts you find objectionable. Do it or don't, I don't care. But if it doesn't injure you too much, please consider that I might want to contribute to posts you find objectionable. I might not, but I might!
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:44 pm
by Spidey
Why is that such a hard concept to grasp?
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:59 pm
by Tunnelcat
sigma wrote:
Tunnelcat wrote:
Krom wrote:
Tunnelcat wrote:sigma, I'm sorry you have those problems in your country. You can talk about it all you like, but murder and killing is out, at least here. It is interesting to hear about your everyday life in Russia since we rarely get any detailed information about Russian life from an actual citizen who lives there.
With all due respect to you.
Can be to think about the drug trafficking from South America and Afghanistan, supplying weapons to Syrian and Ukrainian terrorists? Maybe you need to think about something more profound?
What can I say sigma. The world is a dangerous place anymore. If I lived in or near the situations you describe, I'm quite sure I'd have a different view of things. But here at this board, I've been charged with at least trying to keep the discussions within some semblance of decorum.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:07 am
by sigma
American girl may not be so smart. I suspect that you're definitely Russian, or Russian parents.
For you
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:33 pm
by Tunnelcat
Mostly German and British grandparents and great grandparents. I don't know about anyone farther than that though.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:04 pm
by Ferno
Vander wrote:I think it's apt. You don't like some of what is being posted here and are trying to get it restricted, no?
No. It's a strawman, and it has nothing to do with what I like or dislike. I'm not the grand arbiter of what's likable and what isn't. What I am saying is: Given the inevitable nature of religious or political posts; where it ends up angering a lot of people and leads to nothing constructive; it should not be allowed. I understand what you're trying to say. You want to continue the political or religious discussions because it's always been that way. But just because it's been that way, doesn't mean it should always be that way. When something is demonstrably shown to not work, why continue?
Huh? "Free speech" is a concept protected by, not created by, government statutes. I'm fully aware that First Amendment protections (or whatever Canada has) are not applicable here. But that does not mean the concept of "free speech" is irrelevant in the construction posting rules.
The concept of free speech lies in making sure you're not arrested for saying something objectionable and preventing the government from assuming absolute power. The only reason we're talking about this is because we're allowed to talk about this - and that could change.
With every right comes responsibility. If someone does something irresponsible such as bringing stuff over from Stormfront and starts to defend holocaust denial here, they would be gone almost as quickly as they posted it. And of course when they turn around and try to argue that you 'hate free speech', you would see see the shoe is on the other foot.
As far as I'm concerned, you can do whatever you want. Consider this me NOT asking you to contribute to posts you find objectionable. Do it or don't, I don't care. But if it doesn't injure you too much, please consider that I might want to contribute to posts you find objectionable. I might not, but I might!
If you want to try to put lipstick on a pig, that's your call. But don't say I didn't warn you if every time you try, it ends up as another mudslinging match.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:32 pm
by Tunnelcat
Ferno, if you can come up with an interesting and intelligent sounding topic that doesn't have either religion or politics at it's core and it interests you intellectually, try posting it and let's see if the rubber hits the road for a while. We could definitely use a change of scenery.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:21 pm
by sigma
Tunnelcat wrote:Mostly German and British grandparents and great grandparents. I don't know about anyone farther than that though.
Well, I also have parents of different nationalities, by the way. Muslim father, Russian mother. But I have a character of my mother, I almost entirely Russian. While my brother has the character of the father. Can you imagine what our relationship?
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:33 pm
by Ferno
Tunnelcat wrote:Ferno, if you can come up with an interesting and intelligent sounding topic that doesn't have either religion or politics at it's core and it interests you intellectually, try posting it and let's see if the rubber hits the road for a while. We could definitely use a change of scenery.
I most certainly will. I've been going down the philosophy road on facebook and I've seen some interesting topics come up. I think I'll bring one over.
I have a couple questions for vander, though. I'm curious about what you see in polarizing threads; what worth they have to you. I know you said you like to see other peoples' opinions on matters but is there more to it and can you be more specific? And given what threads we've been seeing recently, do you believe that starting a positive discussion in them would actually result in them ending up positive?
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:55 am
by Tunnelcat
Good. I'm looking forward to seeing your ideas.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:29 pm
by Vander
Ferno wrote:I have a couple questions for vander, though. I'm curious about what you see in polarizing threads; what worth they have to you.
I think in some regards I view them like a puzzle. To use a similar analogy, I'm like a hacker trying to liberate information from the target system, and/or perhaps plant some of my own. Some systems are more open than others, and its easy to achieve that ultimate goal. But some are more secure, making the whole enterprise more difficult. Sure, I'd rather that information be easily accessible, but I also enjoy the challenge of trying to get at that hard to access information.
And in some regards I like playing in mud.
I know you said you like to see other peoples' opinions on matters but is there more to it and can you be more specific?
I selfishly like trying to change others' opinion, and that doesn't happen with people that already agree with me. I think that I'm correct, and I want others to be correct, too. The great side effect is that I get to have my opinion challenged and honed.
And given what threads we've been seeing recently, do you believe that starting a positive discussion in them would actually result in them ending up positive?
No. Yes. Maybe? Just let threads be what they'll be. Participate. Don't participate. You're over-thinking this. Be the change you want to see.
Re: [Split] Topics and Moderating
Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:58 pm
by Ferno
Vander wrote:And in some regards I like playing in mud.
I'll agree with that. It's fun getting down and dirty and the more the merrier.
I selfishly like trying to change others' opinion, and that doesn't happen with people that already agree with me. I think that I'm correct, and I want others to be correct, too. The great side effect is that I get to have my opinion challenged and honed.
Interesting. I think we're all like that; we want others to be part of our tribe so it can be bigger than someone else's tribe.
No. Yes. Maybe? Just let threads be what they'll be. Participate. Don't participate. You're over-thinking this. Be the change you want to see.
