Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by callmeslick »

Spidey wrote:The only problem with your theory tc is…there is no way to guarantee that when you pay people good wages, they will reciprocate and pay that money back to the industries that provide those good wages.

The proof is in the past…go back to a time when we had all those good middle class jobs, and foreign cheaper goods entered the market…like Japanese cars and cameras…well guess what…it was those well paid Americans that dropped this country’s products, and began consuming the cheaper goods in mass.

This kind of thing is nothing new, just study some American history.

while I concur completely with your statement of facts, Spidey, who were the real beneficiaries of the consumption of cheaper goods? I would suggest that it was just another of the many steps the US has taken toward an economy in which actual labor/wages are devalued, and investment/capital gains are overvalued. The stockholders and investors made out just fine in that rush for cheaper goods, and the American worker took it on the chin.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by Spidey »

Well, I would agree that some businesses have benefited more than others.

As far as your big conspiracy theory, the only thing I agree with you there is…some adapt and survive, and some don’t.

I’m just not buying that whole concerted effort to lower wages, and force everyone into servitude theory. Go sell that to someone without so many business people as peers.

Maybe there is a small group of people that you associate with, that have those goals…
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by callmeslick »

SilverFJ wrote:I grew up a poor child of a poor preacher with no mother in what was basically a log cabin with a wood stove. I started working in the hay fields at a very young age (around 8-9) and earned enough money to buy a computer, something I really, really wanted, where you all met me on the internet with the Descent game. After that I hit the road long before I was an adult with nothing but a guitar and a backpack and looked for work, struggled for years until I (...wait havent I said this before??...) I got a job in Alaska. I moved up in said job through the years and now I'm #3 in the company. I took this money back to Montana, and now I own property, I rent several traliers, I own a ferrier business, and I'm starting pouring the foundation for my brewery in the spring and have the capital to furbish it with the equipment I need. I have never taken a business loan. I have never taken a personal loan. What I did was struggle and sacrifice for over a decade, bleeding, sweating, dealt with sleep deprivation and the treachery of those looking for an easy buck off of my sweat-slicked back. I'm fine. The American dream still works. You just have to never, ever, ever, give up. I spent my life, including my childhood, working. The only advantage I had was disadvantage. Try and tell me you can't do it.

People nowadays, espacially those my age, don't understand that that's what it takes. They want **** handed to them and wonder why they can't get ahead. My only issue now is that the people who didn't dedicate their lives to success, who want me to take care of them, are going to ruin me.
welcome to a pluralistic modern society, on that last part. As for your personal success story, which you've been over before, I'll repeat my congratulations. Still, what you don't seem to accept is that you are an outlier. There are a ton of people all over the nation, who can work like hell and remain dangerously impoverished, no matter how industrious they are. That is a simple fact, made all the more likely due to the population distribution of a modern society.
Still, in an odd way, Silver, you illustrate nicely what I've been saying about our economic system. You are not of the 1% top bracket, you are not, nor will you ever be, of the group that has always dictated the economic rules, yet YOU are, indeed, a job creator. Amazing, despite the fact that you don't get the massive breaks on taxation and other perks of inherited wealth, you contribute to economic growth......hmmmm.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by callmeslick »

Spidey wrote:Well, I would agree that some businesses have benefited more than others.

As far as your big conspiracy theory, the only thing I agree with you there is…some adapt and survive, and some don’t.

I’m just not buying that whole concerted effort to lower wages, and force everyone into servitude theory. Go sell that to someone without so many business people as peers.

Maybe there is a small group of people that you associate with, that have those goals…

dude, it's obvious. The victors in that scenario were, and always will be, the large-scale investors and business owners. Solely. Would you view the foreign workers as winners? Tell that to the kid in Bangaladesh sewing shirts for 3 cents a day. Likewise, the Chinese electronics worker living in overgrown chicken coops. Of course, it's a concerted effort to supress wages, it always has been, from slavery to migrant labor, to offshore industry. And, unless it gets tightly regulated, in what is going to be a global economy whether you or I want it to be or not, the US worker, by and large, is toast. Well, either toast, or he/she is going to get used to living on 20 bucks a week.. Maybe you are right, you may not be hanging with the proper people to hear that, but that IS reality, and some folks will be glad to inform you. Hell, if you act alarmed, they might even chuckle at your naivete, and pour themselves another Sanzarac to go with their Cuban cigar.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by callmeslick »

Spidey wrote: This is a 70% consumer driven economy, so just who do you think is in the driver’s seat…no, wait I just answered that.

It works both ways, you have to be willing to spend your money (the consumer) on good old well paid American labor. Business doesn’t really have a choice…they can pay high wages, and you can go right to Wal-Mart.

The main problem is there is no proper consumer education in this country, and both the right and the left have their reasons to lie like the devil.

The connection between cheap goods and wages has been broken in this country, just like the connection between taxes and services has been broken in Europe…how else can someone believe in “free healthcare” or you have a “right” to cheap goods.
the consumer-driven domestic economy concept is a joke. Most of the recent decades have been consumers buying with credit. In other words, the economy is being driven by folks buying stuff they don't need, with money they don't, nor ever did, have. That house of cards inevitably comes crashing down periodically, and has. Every time, the old money and big money figure out a way to leave the little guy with the bill. Funny how that works, huh?
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by Heretic »

NotSoSlick wrote:In other words, the Government is being driven by folks buying stuff they don't need, with money they don't, nor ever did, have. That house of cards inevitably comes crashing down periodically, and has.
Fixed it for you.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by Tunnelcat »

SilverFJ wrote: Fail.

I grew up a poor child of a poor preacher with no mother in what was basically a log cabin with a wood stove. I started working in the hay fields at a very young age (around 8-9) and earned enough money to buy a computer, something I really, really wanted, where you all met me on the internet with the Descent game. After that I hit the road long before I was an adult with nothing but a guitar and a backpack and looked for work, struggled for years until I (...wait havent I said this before??...) I got a job in Alaska. I moved up in said job through the years and now I'm #3 in the company. I took this money back to Montana, and now I own property, I rent several traliers, I own a ferrier business, and I'm starting pouring the foundation for my brewery in the spring and have the capital to furbish it with the equipment I need. I have never taken a business loan. I have never taken a personal loan. What I did was struggle and sacrifice for over a decade, bleeding, sweating, dealt with sleep deprivation and the treachery of those looking for an easy buck off of my sweat-slicked back. I'm fine. The American dream still works. You just have to never, ever, ever, give up. I spent my life, including my childhood, working. The only advantage I had was disadvantage. Try and tell me you can't do it.

People nowadays, espacially those my age, don't understand that that's what it takes. They want **** handed to them and wonder why they can't get ahead. My only issue now is that the people who didn't dedicate their lives to success, who want me to take care of them, are going to ruin me.
You're misunderstanding my point. What you've done with your life is wonderful. I'm not saying it's impossible for people to do it. You're obviously happy with how you ended up in life and what it took to do it. Great.

I say it's a "fail" because what you've done is not applicable or even possible for every single person in the country. It's not a blanket "one size fits all" solution. You're the exception, not the rule. There are just too many people and not enough chances. And not everyone is as smart or as driven as you to make something of their lives from nothing either. Many people just want a steady job that doesn't require the smarts or effort to perform and pays enough support themselves or their family. A lot of people like a solid, stable rut.

Yes, many Americans tend to want the easy way out in life and you're NOT going to make that trait go away soon. People have tasted the fruits of a nice middle class for a very long time and they don't want to give it up. What do you do with all those former middle class people who are now unemployed? Throw them away as homeless people because they won't scrabble their way back to productivity? Perhaps maybe they don't SEE a way back either? Their numbers are climbing and so are the resulting problems. I'm open for solutions that are in the realm of possibility.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by Spidey »

“Many people just want a steady job that doesn't require the smarts or effort to perform and pays enough support themselves or their family.”

But no business anywhere in the Galaxy…even in liberal land owes someone that.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by Zuruck »

What job did you have in Alaska that allowed you to do all this Silver? I think 43 million people would like to know...never heard of something paying so well.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by SilverFJ »

Well, several years ago I started off gutting fish on the line for very poor pay. But I got to know the right people, pushed myself harder than anyone else, on several occasions by my own decision, I broke into the plant when it was closed down and studdied the machinary and their manuals, etc, etc, etc and now I'm the plant's production manager. I've been taking that money and turning it around for a few years now buying, fixing, and flipping retal properties for profit and renting them in the span it took to flip them. I also began a ferrier service with my grown knowledge of horses and started it with a handfull of tools and a broken-down trailer, and now I sit back and collect as my two paid employees run it. I mean, it's not just the AK job, which IS a substantial amount of money, but it's how I've used it. It's also how I've set myself up, I live and work on a ranch inbetween everything else with no living expenses.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to brag about anything like I'm hot ★■◆●, I just want to be a living example of how the American dream still works.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by Tunnelcat »

Spidey wrote:“Many people just want a steady job that doesn't require the smarts or effort to perform and pays enough support themselves or their family.”

But no business anywhere in the Galaxy…even in liberal land owes someone that.
No, business doesn't owe anybody anything, just as business shouldn't expect everyone else to owe them anything in return, like lower tax rates than individuals in return for "job creation", which is bogus by the way. It didn't work under Bush and it's still not working under Obama. Conservatives are still giving us the slight of hand with that one.

And those with no "smarts" or no education, used to get manufacturing jobs that they could be quickly trained in with a minimum of effort. Now all they have are food and service jobs, many thankless and dirty, that pay far less. They're still in society and still unemployed and still homeless, and soon to be a new crop of criminals out of desperation to survive.

I haven't even touched on people who are disabled or sick and can't work either, especially those with no family support. Discounting the deadbeats, there's still a significant number of people that fall into that category. What do we do for them? Somehow I think that Conservatives just want all those people who are sick, poor or uneducated and thus a stain on their perfect free market system, to just go away and disappear. Out of sight, out of mind. :wink:
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by CUDA »

tunnelcat wrote:Somehow I think that Conservatives just want all those people who are Liberals, and thus a stain on their perfect society, to just go away and disappear. Out of sight, out of mind. :wink:
Fixed it for ya :P :wink: :mrgreen:
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

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Well , I have put this challenge out to you before…

Since you liberals seem to have all of the answers, just go and start a bunch of these wonderful businesses that make high quality widgets, and pay their employees great wages and benefits…(and be sure to hire a lot of those unmotivated people you mentioned)

But first…let me know where your customer base is.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by callmeslick »

Heretic wrote:
NotSoSlick wrote:In other words, the Government is being driven by folks buying stuff they don't need, with money they don't, nor ever did, have. That house of cards inevitably comes crashing down periodically, and has.
Fixed it for you.

largely nonsense, government, despite claims to the contrary is not anything like personal finance. Never will be, either, unless your goal is a return to a Dickensian hell for the bulk of the populace.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

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SilverFJ wrote:Well, several years ago I started off gutting fish on the line for very poor pay. But I got to know the right people, pushed myself harder than anyone else, on several occasions by my own decision, I broke into the plant when it was closed down and studdied the machinary and their manuals, etc, etc, etc and now I'm the plant's production manager. I've been taking that money and turning it around for a few years now buying, fixing, and flipping retal properties for profit and renting them in the span it took to flip them. I also began a ferrier service with my grown knowledge of horses and started it with a handfull of tools and a broken-down trailer, and now I sit back and collect as my two paid employees run it. I mean, it's not just the AK job, which IS a substantial amount of money, but it's how I've used it. It's also how I've set myself up, I live and work on a ranch inbetween everything else with no living expenses.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to brag about anything like I'm hot ****, I just want to be a living example of how the American dream still works.

...and my point would be that such a pattern is not available to very many Americans, even in Alaska, let alone the lower 48.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

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callmeslick wrote:
SilverFJ wrote:Well, several years ago I started off gutting fish on the line for very poor pay. But I got to know the right people, pushed myself harder than anyone else, on several occasions by my own decision, I broke into the plant when it was closed down and studdied the machinary and their manuals, etc, etc, etc and now I'm the plant's production manager. I've been taking that money and turning it around for a few years now buying, fixing, and flipping retal properties for profit and renting them in the span it took to flip them. I also began a ferrier service with my grown knowledge of horses and started it with a handfull of tools and a broken-down trailer, and now I sit back and collect as my two paid employees run it. I mean, it's not just the AK job, which IS a substantial amount of money, but it's how I've used it. It's also how I've set myself up, I live and work on a ranch inbetween everything else with no living expenses.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to brag about anything like I'm hot ****, I just want to be a living example of how the American dream still works.

...and my point would be that such a pattern is not available to very many Americans, even in Alaska, let alone the lower 48.
What pattern? Taking a low level job and working your way up? Saving money and using it for more than something to stuff up your nose? The "pattern" is available to one and all. All one has to do is reach out and make a grab for it instead of believing the defeatist mantra of "You can't succeed so don't try".
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by flip »

Slick's compassion is the path towards oppression because he hasn't had to go out and claim a stake of his own.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

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flip wrote:Slick's compassion is the path towards oppression because he hasn't had to go out and claim a stake of his own.
bulls**t. Pure and simple.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by Spidey »

Someday I’d like to see some empirical data stating how there is just a chance in hell for someone to get wealthy in this country.

First of all, you need a control group of people who actually aspire to becoming wealthy, have a plan to accomplish such, and carry it through.

Of course there is a “chance in hell” for someone to get rich in this country, there is also a chance in hell you will wake up a rock star. Most people I know have much lower goals in mind, so of course their chances of becoming rich are about zero.

If you had a control group, that actually tried to become rich and failed, then you could make a comparison to say…how many people have tried to become an astronaut and failed.

There are plenty of millionaires in this country, and I would be willing to place money on the fact that it’s more likely to become rich, than many other desirable things.

Until someone shows me such a study, the entire notion that you can’t get rich in this country, is just an opinion stated as fact…and may be a fact…but a very misleading fact…accounting to no more than propaganda. (meaningless data, used for an agenda)

LOL, of course it’s unlikely someone will end up rich…it’s also unlikely someone will end up a brain surgeon.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by Tunnelcat »

CUDA wrote:
tunnelcat wrote:Somehow I think that Conservatives just want all those people who are Liberals, and thus a stain on their perfect society, to just go away and disappear. Out of sight, out of mind. :wink:
Fixed it for ya :P :wink: :mrgreen:
OK, what would YOU do to solve the unemployment and poverty problem people in this country? You keep calling liberals and their socialistic ideas of social security and medicare as welfare bunk that only supports or promotes laziness and a poor work ethic. You got a better solution for those that fall through the cracks or get sick or old, or worse, don't want to work? You got a PLAN Mr. Conservative? :roll:
Spidey wrote:Well , I have put this challenge out to you before…

Since you liberals seem to have all of the answers, just go and start a bunch of these wonderful businesses that make high quality widgets, and pay their employees great wages and benefits…(and be sure to hire a lot of those unmotivated people you mentioned)

But first…let me know where your customer base is.
Pay people a good wage or salary that goes above and beyond a living wage or the poverty line and you'll have customers coming out your ears. People WILL spend money, when they have extra to burn. Most people WANT to spend their extra money. It's called "disposable income". But pay people a wage that barely gets them through the month on subsistence and they'll certainly not spend it on anything superfluous. They'll stick with food and shelter and that's it, because that's all they have. Simple. :wink:
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by flip »

My point Slick, is that 'most' people don't want to be taken care of or pitied, they want an atmosphere in which they can take care of themselves. Not a government with it's hands in every pot and doling out it's own sense of 'fairness'.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by Spidey »

There is plenty of disposable income in this country…you just keep missing the point as to how people spend it.

(goods that don’t support good old American middle class wages)

You have two choices…

1. Understand just how an economy works, and the relation between cheap goods and wages.

2. Keep blaming the big bad boogieman.

Take your pick.

As I pointed out in an earlier post…there was a time when there were plenty of middle class jobs…then came the cheap goods…

So the question becomes…What came first…the decline of wages…or the consumption of cheap goods?

Like I said…gasp…this is not the first time this has happened in America. Check out some of the other periods in US history, such as the tariff years.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by CUDA »

not much os a sense of humor HUH TC? lighten up!!! did you not see the emoticons???? :roll:

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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

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tunnelcat wrote:
CUDA wrote:
tunnelcat wrote:Somehow I think that Conservatives just want all those people who are Liberals, and thus a stain on their perfect society, to just go away and disappear. Out of sight, out of mind. :wink:
Fixed it for ya :P :wink: :mrgreen:
OK, what would YOU do to solve the unemployment and poverty problem people in this country? You keep calling liberals and their socialistic ideas of social security and medicare as welfare bunk that only supports or promotes laziness and a poor work ethic. You got a better solution for those that fall through the cracks or get sick or old, or worse, don't want to work? You got a PLAN Mr. Conservative? :roll:
So how well has the war on poverty been doing and what has it cost?
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by callmeslick »

flip wrote:My point Slick, is that 'most' people don't want to be taken care of or pitied, they want an atmosphere in which they can take care of themselves. Not a government with it's hands in every pot and doling out it's own sense of 'fairness'.

...and I don't espouse the latter, myself. What I do want is a set of strict regulations in place that re-focus business on long term productivity and profits, and protections for the consumers. Further, I feel that all citizens deserve peace of mind regarding health care, basic necessities and housing. Works other places, it would work here, too.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by Top Gun »

I'm reminded of an article I read a day or two ago about federal oil heating subsidies being dramatically slashed this year, which means that fixed-income people in places like the Northeast are going to be squeezed very hard to attempt to pay their heating bills. In 21st-century America, people having to decide whether they can even afford to heat their homes is something I consider to be very wrong.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by flip »

Can't disagree with that. Considering the blank check the government has, they could at least take care of those who cannot take care of themselves. So far, it's not working.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by Tunnelcat »

Spidey wrote:.....So the question becomes…What came first…the decline of wages…or the consumption of cheap goods?

Like I said…gasp…this is not the first time this has happened in America. Check out some of the other periods in US history, such as the tariff years.
I'm going to guess, since my economics is marginal at best, that most corporations are always pulled by Wall Street towards manufacturing more and more products at the cheapest costs possible, all to enhance their profits and bottom line. There used to be a point of diminishing returns for this practice. As goods became cheaper and of poorer quality, sales of that product would tend to fall off because people would stop buying in response, so either the manufacturer would cut costs somewhere else to make up those lost profits, or maybe improve the product's quality, or possibly just go out of business and take the money and run.

Many times, if they cared, they would fix their quality issues and sales might recover and their customers would return. Customers can be loyal if the company stands by their products. But most of the time, when a company hoses their customer base too many times, they'll usually leave in droves forever.

What I find absolutely evil now is that corporations have been aggregating into larger monopolies that don't give a damn about the customer or their products. They will always do a knee jerk reaction to those Wall Street demands for high quarterly profits and try to cut costs first, before trying to improve their product quality or efficiency to boost sales. The product is no longer a means to profit. Profit itself is the means for profit.

So how do they cut costs to enhance their bottom line? Make better and better products that people will want to buy more of? Or make their products out of the cheapest materials and construction methods possible and cut the wages, health benefits and pensions of their workers and then flood the market with mass quantities of junk with no other options to choose from. Nowadays, it's the latter. They'll crow at us; "You don't like our products, tough sh*t! We're the only game in town, so suck it up and pay up or go without!"

Now, once these bastards ran into the living wage wall of U.S. workers, they lobbied Congress (of course, now they own them), changed trade policies and moved overseas where they can pay next-to-nothing in wages and absolutely NO pensions or health benefits to their workers. No taxes or pesky pollution regulations to deal with either. They don't even bother to keep up quality because there ARE no other companies WITH better quality now. Everything's made in China or a third world country. It's pure profit for them and diminishing returns for us who want those products and good enough wages to be able to pay for them.

Now, with the high unemployment they've created here with that foreign outsourcing, these clueless or greedy corporations still expect people to have some extra cash to spend on their cheaply made China, Pakistan, Thailand, etc. crap? Well surprise, surprise, not so likely anymore. People just don't have as much disposable income as they used to when the middle class was king. Now that that middle class is disappearing, they can only get so much blood from a turnip.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

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Why do you assume that all manufacturing is done by public companies? Most of those good middle class jobs are gone because the small to medium companies who used to pay those wages are now gone…thousands of these businesses over the last 30 years.

It was an unfortunate fact that the ones paying good wages and benefits were the hardest hurt, and are now closed.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by Tunnelcat »

Spidey wrote:Why do you assume that all manufacturing is done by public companies? Most of those good middle class jobs are gone because the small to medium companies who used to pay those wages are now gone…thousands of these businesses over the last 30 years.

It was an unfortunate fact that the ones paying good wages and benefits were the hardest hurt, and are now closed.
What's the reason for all these formerly profitable businesses to close in the first place? There are still buying customers out there. In fact, there are even more now with population growth. Something's changed in the last 30 years, and it I think it has to do with Wall Street, and Reagan.

http://visualizingeconomics.com/2011/04 ... 1916-2010/

Just look at the top marginal tax rates since 1916. Corporations have been on easy street since Reagan, and are now raking in the cash in record amounts. Meanwhile, workers are getting shorted more and more, further reducing their buying power. I don't see any trickle down economics working here, only corporations cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/06/busin ... harts.html
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

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I already answered that question…cheap foreign labor!

Potential customers don’t mean crap, you actually have to put your money where your mouth is, and be willing to pay for those good middle class jobs.

You chose the boogie men…welcome to fantasy land…
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

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NAFTA was the first big move across the table to make that possible. Everything else that was done in our local politics was just to accommodate and further strengthen international commerce.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

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And lets not forget all the regulations that make it more costly to run a business
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

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woodchip wrote:And lets not forget all the regulations that make it more costly to run a business

funny how this 'complaint' tends to come from rigid right-wing yakkers, and not actual businesspeople. A recent survey of core issues of concern to business owners/CEO's had regulation around 9th, far behind demand, infrastructure decay, and, get this,
an ineffective legislative branch. Go figure.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

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Spidey wrote:I already answered that question…cheap foreign labor!

Potential customers don’t mean crap, you actually have to put your money where your mouth is, and be willing to pay for those good middle class jobs.
Yeah, cheap foreign labor to raise those almighty profits. I'd BE willing to pay for more expensive American-made products, especially if those companies paid attention to the quality and repairability of those products. Then I wouldn't have to shell out my meager money for cheaply built and unrepairable crap that lasts for a few weeks or months and then breaks, forcing me to toss it out and either buy another or go without. I'm betting that most Americans end up paying more out of their pocketbooks in the long run because of that cheap Chinese or Mexican junk that breaks as soon as it's out of the package and which has to be disposed of because it can't be repaired. And you know this planned obsolescence is being done on purpose too, all to sell more crappy product.

I don't put all the blame for this on business. At lot of it has to do with consumer greed and stupidity. But I DO blame business getting too focused on profits, not the actual business. The customer isn't there to just be bilked out of their cash. And that customer needs a decent wage to pay for those better, higher priced products than the crap we're getting courtesy of foreign labor.

Here's why focusing on profit over quality gets us in a consumer cheap product death spiral. Junky products from Walmart that feeds the huge wealth machine of just 6 members of ONE damn family! It's also a self maintaining downward spiral too. As wages drop, people HAVE to buy their crap out of necessity!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/six-walto ... 19426.html
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

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Too late…that dog won’t hunt anymore.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

Post by CUDA »

TC wrote:But I DO blame business getting too focused on profits, not the actual business.
Do you even understand what a Business is???
busi·ness
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the purchase and sale of goods in an attempt to make a profit.
the ACTUAL business IS to focus on profit. and there are many ways to do that, cost and sale of the product is just one of them. Walmart is in business because the CONSUMER wants cheap products and for no other reason. it's no different then choosing McDonalds or Taco bell over a Ruth chris steakhouse.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

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not really cuda. they choose mcd's over a steakhouse because they're hungry, and can't afford the steakhouse.
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

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Heh this is true. I wish we could afford $35.00 entree's. Yet again, I had 4 kids and wild oats to sow. Kids are almost grown so hopefully those 35 dollar entree's will still be around when we get there ;).
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Re: Is newt going after the hispanic vote?

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CUDA wrote:
TC wrote:But I DO blame business getting too focused on profits, not the actual business.
Do you even understand what a Business is???
busi·ness
   [biz-nis] Show IPA
noun

2.
the purchase and sale of goods in an attempt to make a profit.
the ACTUAL business IS to focus on profit. and there are many ways to do that, cost and sale of the product is just one of them. Walmart is in business because the CONSUMER wants cheap products and for no other reason. it's no different then choosing McDonalds or Taco bell over a Ruth chris steakhouse.
How about this. Your steakhouse mention made me think of this.

There are a couple of major national grocery stores here in Little Podunk Corvallis. Safeway, Albertsons and Kroger (Fred Meyer), plus a couple of lesser known companies that are spread around town, but mostly in the wealthier north part. Safeway has too many stores (3) in our location for such a small town too, so most of these stores compete on price point to entice the customer in. I think we have at least 8 to 10 grocery stores in this small town. Kind of overkill.

We used to buy our groceries at Safeway, especially steaks and roasts, because their butchers sold good cuts of meat. Even though they tended to be more expensive overall, we liked their product selection and quality. Well, recently, the sell at the lowest price possible strategy got to them too finally. For the second time in a month and from 2 different Safeways, we've purchased New York steaks that were tough, tasteless and gave us both diarrhea (and we KNOW it was from the steak). After some searching, we found out that many national stores are injecting their meat with water through fine needles to plump up the weight (for more profit) and make them seem juicier. Whether Safeway is doing this or not, the unintended consequence is that we can no longer eat a rare or medium rare steak or roast bought from them, or any national chain for that matter, because their meats are probably now internally contaminated. Meat is supposed to be safe rare if it hasn't been cut into, punctured or somehow internally compromised. But IF this new practice of injecting the meat with water is a new national practice, ALL meat has to be cooked to 160 F, not just hamburger, because now it's loaded with internal bacteria. Bye, bye nice pink and juicy roasts and medium rare steaks. :cry:

The upshot of it is, we will no longer buy any of our meats, or anything else, at any Safeway, and we will be suspect of any meat from any other national chain too. Whether it's due to corporate practice or just bad luck, they've lost a customer, permanently. Sure, they gave us back the money, but getting sick was definitely NOT worth the hassle.

Why did they lose a customer? Because they went for price point instead of quality. What's sad is there doesn't seem to be any local source of quality meat even if I wanted to buy it, because everybody just buys the cheap stuff, further reenforcing the situation. These stores are only worried about their bottom line now, not whether their customers LIKE their products, or even survive eating those products. Ugh! Focusing only on profit is not a good way to keep customers loyal. I guess if enough consumer sheep keep buying, they'll stay in business.

Like many of you have said, you can't afford better products if you wanted them. So why is that? If people made better wages, we would be able to buy things of better quality, instead of forcing EVERYONE to follow the curve of diminishing returns. The consumer is now STUCK buying cheap crap because they HAVE too. People are no longer paid enough to buy better things. Nice way to run an economy.

CUDA, you indicated once that you owned or worked in a body shop? How do you keep a loyal customer base? Does your shop do good work, or do you slap the car back together and hit it with a coat of paint to hide the sins and make the insurance company happy? Being a mechanic myself, if I got my car back from a body shop that did hidden shoddy work, I would make sure a LOT of people would be hearing about it and perhaps putting a dent in your business. But if your shop did good work, I'd be recommending you to as many people as I could. What goes around comes around, profit or no profit. :wink:
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