Question about Japanese

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Tue May 23, 2006 9:00 pm

I've been reading some manga.. (my daughter's been after me to) and I noticed that a suffix on the names are -san, -chan, and -kun. What are the conditions in which they are used? I've \"-san\" many many times but not the others.

also, what does \"baka\" and \"gomen\" mean?

Thx! ^_^

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Tue May 23, 2006 9:24 pm

all of those suffixes are respectful terms. Saying Duper-san basically means Duper, whom I respect.

-San is used for both sexes, but has lighter impact.
-Kun is used for males whom you respect more.
-Chan is used for females whom you respect more.

Baka could mean either idiot, or ★■◆● if it is said as \"Baka Yaro\".

Gomen means I am sorry. If you kick someone in the balls by accident, you should say gomen.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Tue May 23, 2006 9:48 pm

ahh ok. thanks!

it was just baka. I figured it was something like that but the context wasn't clear enough for being more than an explative.

Gomen means I am sorry. If you kick someone in the balls by accident, you should say gomen.

ook.. and yea.. I'll be sure to do that.

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Tue May 23, 2006 11:52 pm

you can also think of \"-san\" being more equal to saying \"Mr. Duper\" (or Ms. Duper). There are others you might come across. Like \"sama\" which is VERY respectfull, like saying God or complete ruler. (kami-sama means God)

So are these manga translated into english or still in Japanese?

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Wed May 24, 2006 12:42 am

My daughter informed me a while ago that \"sempi\" is also used ... forgot what she said about it tho ....(way to do dad)

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Wed May 24, 2006 12:56 am

I'm pretty sure sempai means \"senior\" or \"upper classman\" in school. I was wondering why they used \"baka\" or \"gomen\" if it was translated into english. Should just be \"idiot\" or \"sorry\" respectively.

Dakatsu · Post by **Dakatsu** » Wed May 24, 2006 1:04 am

SemPAI is a very hard word to describe. It basically means upper. Not a boss, but more like an upper person.

Ugh.. sort of like this.

Lets say you are a Senior Engineer for a company. You are not the boss, but you are not a Normal Engineer. You would be considered sempai. It can also relate to your age. Really can mean alot of things.

Here is a few paragraphs on the word.

sempai/kouhai
Could be translated as the opposition \"superior-inferior/subordinate\" or \"senior-junior\" or \"older-younger\" or \"old-timer-newcomer\", etc.

Japanese society is hierarchical. At work, every knows their position and if they are somebody else's sempai or kouhai.

I find this expression very confusing because we never know if it relates to age, experience, rank, or length of time spent in a place (usually in a company). That means that Japanese think that age, experience and rank are always related, which explains why it is very difficult, if not impossible, for people under 50 or 60 to attain higher spheres of power (in business, politics or anything else). There are few young politicians or ministers, but even less young manager or CEO's.

To add difficulty to the confusion, take the case of someone having 15 years experience and changing company. This person will be considered as \"kouhai\" (junior ?) as they are new in the company, regardless of their age and experience. So, what if this person receives a \"senior management\" post ? What if this is a foreigner who had achieved a quick climb and reached a top managerial position at a young age and move to this post in a Japanese company ? This person would command people older than them and with a longer \"corporate experience\" (of that very company), and thus be considered both sempai and kouhai, which is no normally possible.

If Japanese people read this, please share your views.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Wed May 24, 2006 5:30 am

http://krom.sploitz.com/temp/honorifics.txt

roid · Post by **roid** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 7:23 am

DESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESUDESU!!

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:50 am

Heh roid! Welcome back desu!

roid · Post by **roid** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:07 am

hai, nice to see the place hasn't burned down desudesu

d3jake · Post by **d3jake** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:07 pm

Xamindar wrote: Like "sama" which is VERY respectfull, like saying God or complete ruler. (kami-sama means God)

kami-sama..? WTF? turtle god?...wait, a kami oculd also be a jar...

BTW, Duper, if you find the Manga "Ai Yori Aoshi" (sappy love story but stay with me) in the front few pages, (well..back to us) there should be a list of thses terms.
AND\\OR Krom's list thingie...

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:13 pm

kami can be translated as the following depending on the context:

Online Japanese Dictionary wrote:kami (n) delicious taste

kami (n,vs) (1) seasoning; flavoring; flavouring; (2) taking (something) into consideration; taking into account; (P)

kami (n) paper; (P)

kami (n) protection; defense; defence; safeguard; charm; talisman

kami (n) top; head; upper part; upper stream; emperor; a superior; upper part of the body; the above; (P)

kami (n) god; (P)

kami (n) hair; (P)

kame is:

Online Japanese Dictionary wrote:kame (n) tortoise; turtle; (P)

kame (n) earthenware pot

kame (n) earthenware pot; jar; jug

kame (n) jar; jug; vat; urn; vase

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:08 pm

\"chan\" is used for children mostly.

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:54 pm

Mobius wrote:"chan" is used for children mostly.

WRONG! Mobius, seriously, stop posting.

Foil · Post by **Foil** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 3:49 pm

Xamindar wrote:
Mobius wrote:"chan" is used for children mostly.
WRONG! Mobius, seriously, stop posting.

Ummm, I don't know Japanese, but according to the "honorifics" link Krom posted, Mobius is exactly right...

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:32 pm

Go to Japan then. \"chan\" is used between children, close relatives (ie. husband to wife, child to grandmother), close friends, and also in a disrespectful way if you do not know the person and are talking \"down\" to them.

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:40 pm

I think you are both correct. It is used MOSTLY for children, but can be used in other cases as well.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:40 pm

Krom wrote: kame is:
Online Japanese Dictionary wrote:kame (n) tortoise; turtle; (P)

kame (n) earthenware pot

kame (n) earthenware pot; jar; jug

kame (n) jar; jug; vat; urn; vase

aaah thus the old dude's name from Dragonball. Sorry, heck of a reference, but that's where I've seen it before.

Thx!

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:32 pm

Yeah, his name obviously had something to do with him being called a turtle hermit and wearing a shell. Just something that got lost in translation.

Beowulf · Post by **Beowulf** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:45 pm

Call me Beo-sama from now on, got it?

Krom · Post by **Krom** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:58 pm

Hai, Beo-chin!

Xamindar · Post by **Xamindar** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:21 pm

Yes, Beo-sama. You always trash me in D3. So I will call you Beo-sama. I worship you.