DescentBB

Please, I beg of you, please put up a special server or something that is specifically for the people with lackluster skills. That is, if there is anyone out there that plays Descent 3 still and sucks like yours truly.

To be honest, even noobs and bad players have diverse skill sets. Me, I cannot compete in D3 at all, but I dominate in the first two.
It'll be hard, but you can probably organize an all lower-tier player game.

Theres always Subway Dancer (This is a joke).
Just try playing all three games, it'll help you out. Find a server you like, and make friends. A lot of Descenters will help you out.

The D2X-XL group on Steam could use a few more people that can dominate.

Sirius wrote:The D2X-XL group on Steam could use a few more people that can dominate.

I've considered getting D2-XL but it really does confuse me.

Isn't that what \"Dad's\" servers are for?

My humble opinion, what better way to learn than to play with the best?

Not that ANY amount of lessons will improve my playing much. <sigh> But still, I think you pick up better lessons and learn better habits by playing against really GOOD players.

it requires some patience on the good players part, but most of the masters who are still playing are pretty nice folks. At least they were back when my wrist would let me play.

I totally understand Kilarin, its just that after awhile of constantly getting raped on, I get discouraged and don't feel like playing.

I just wanna have some fun with people at my skill level.

I understand. That's the same way I felt at first.

Here's what worked for me: Ask the best player in whatever game you're in, to show you some moves afterward. You may come across a couple of jerks, but I've found that most of the top guys are more than willing to help a newbie out.

And besides that, just keep playing, and make it a point to watch what some of the best players do (you might even try piggy-back observer for short periods). You'll get better, trust me.

S13driftAZ wrote:its just that after awhile of constantly getting raped on, I get discouraged and don't feel like playing.

Understandable. I can put in 15 or 20 minutes before my wrist starts screaming. I guess I need to start jumping in to multi-player again. That way there will be someone playing that ANYONE can beat.

When I started in 97 playing D2 multi it took me 3 months of playing 4 hours a night to start getting higher than 50% average. I stayed in because I loved Descent that much. It takes time and effort to be good at a complex game like this. There are no cheats or easy way out. Have to stick to it. But the rewards are awesome.

Kilarin wrote:Understandable. I can put in 15 or 20 minutes before my wrist starts screaming. I guess I need to start jumping in to multi-player again. That way there will be someone playing that ANYONE can beat.

We need to just have a thread then for like, Descent 3 reunions or something.

Kilarin wrote:My humble opinion, what better way to learn than to play with the best?

Not that ANY amount of lessons will improve my playing much. <sigh> But still, I think you pick up better lessons and learn better habits by playing against really GOOD players.

it requires some patience on the good players part, but most of the masters who are still playing are pretty nice folks. At least they were back when my wrist would let me play.

I have to agree. Getting your butt kicked will not only humble you, but hopefully you learn from every loss.

You need to understand what drift is saying though. He's experiencing a HUGE skill gap. You don't have little leaguers start by playing against a pro team. That's just silly.

Practicing against someone better than you is good and necessary, but getting your butt handed to you in a tin can is not fun nor helpful. It just pads someone else's score that doesn't care that you are trying to learn. This is where the clans came in. Where most of us \"old timers\" started and learned.

In drift's case, the ol' \"pull your self up by your boot straps\" shtick may not apply. There is practice and then there is learning new skills.

Solders are not trained by throwing them into a combat zone green without boot camp. .. that would be \"Enemy at the Gates\".

That's true, Duper. The difference can be overwhelming. I certainly remember days when I first started playing online, getting under 20% efficiency; it was frustrating as heck.

How about this? S13Drift, let me know what level you'd like, and I'll put it up on my servers ([RIP]Rockies) as \"Training\". Hopefully that should draw the right kind of people (either players at your level, or top guys who are willing to teach).

Also have to agree with Duper here; you learn more from people who are slightly better than you than those who are vastly better, because you at least have a good chance of figuring out why they're better.

I think most raw skill in Descent is ultimately a simple combination of good automatic conditioned responses and the focus required to set them off with the right timing.

Too many people over-complicate things when they are trying to improve their game. Thinking back practically half of my skills in D3 boiled down to one simple automatic conditioned response: afterburner + trichord (usually left + up + banking/turning for level flight) then drop a charged fusion shot when my reticule lines up as I pass the target at near point blank range. It evolved from when I was playing Descent (1) single player, a simple automatic conditioned response timed roughly to the charge up time of the fusion cannon. As a tactic it is uninspiring and as a strategy it is practically nonexistent, but it is extremely effective in Descent 1 or 2 single player and works almost embarrassingly well against a lot of people in multiplayer. It combines a bum rush one hit kill offense with a small defensive dodge all in one move.

If you try to copy too many moves you will be too slow to execute them in any meaningful way. Instead take just two or three moves that work solidly for you and repeat them so many times that you just do them without thinking at all. Practice! Practice! Practice! Practice them till you have destroyed the keys/buttons you use for them on several controllers (or dozens/hundreds if they break easily). Practice them till you use them without thinking even if you are only dreaming about playing. Practice them till your corpse would twitch them if someone zapped it with a little electricity after removing your brain. Eventually they should be so fast that the only thing that can effectively counter them is another automatic conditioned response. People just can't out-think that kind of twitch reflex because its done and over with before they even have the chance to think. After you have completed that on a few basic moves and built yourself a solid foundation you can start to add new tactics to fill in the gaps a few at a time giving yourself plenty of time to perfect them. Turning a handful of basic tactics into inhumanly fast automatic conditioned responses should improve almost anyone's game a lot.

o_0

is there a doctor in the house???

interesting post krom but all you're really saying is get good reflexes
a good player is someone who builds a whole game ontop of automatic movements.

Nah, you are thinking reflexes in the sense of hand-eye coordination which aren't that important, this is more like the reflex from when a doctor hits your knee which is a much faster reflex. All that they have to do is get tactics and timing out from their higher brain because it is too far away from the limbs up there. It just takes a lot of time, experience and repetition to program it into your automatic reflexes. It frees you to think about other things than tactics and flying, for instance someone who has done it could carry on a unrelated conversation with someone else while still playing well in a competitive game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory

thats what i meant krom, it's not just muscle memory that matters, its mental capacity and conditioning for speed that counts for more, i've played with people that have sharp piloting skills and very nice looking flying but they lack any kind of mental game that's required by anyone who seeks to top whats been shown to be the new level of skill.

Wasn't it you that just said recently that mind games don't work on you? Apparently you lack the mental capacity to comprehend why, not particularly surprising given how much time you devote to playing this ancient game...

Foil wrote:How about this? S13Drift, let me know what level you'd like, and I'll put it up on my servers ([RIP]Rockies) as "Training". Hopefully that should draw the right kind of people (either players at your level, or top guys who are willing to teach).

Dang, well where to start...

I love Circuit breaker, vvg is getting funner, burning indika is always great, and ascent is okay.

I would say, stay with burning indika - if a whole lotta people show up, VVG.

Krom wrote:Wasn't it you that just said recently that mind games don't work on you? Apparently you lack the mental capacity to comprehend why, not particularly surprising given how much time you devote to playing this ancient game...

lol leave me alone

I have to agree with Krom about repeating movements until they become second-nature / muscle-memory. It takes a while, though. I certainly remember having to think about my keys and stick for the first couple of months of playing online. It took even longer before I could perform anything I wanted without thinking, or even while holding a conversation. (Heh, I still get flak from a couple of guys about my first couple of days on voice with them, when I asked, "How can you guys talk and play at the same time?!" )

Of course, I have to agree with Behe as well. My physical game is pretty decent, but I still recognize that I need to learn some aspects of the mental/strategic side of the game, particularly in 1v1.

S13driftAZ wrote:

Foil wrote:...let me know what level you'd like, and I'll put it up...

I would say, stay with burning indika...

Done. I'll put up a "Training" BI3 server when I get home today.

Foil wrote:I need to learn some aspects of the mental/strategic side of the game, particularly in 1v1.

Done. I'll put up a "Training" BI3 server when I get home today.

Wow, that may be exactly why I am not so good online... I have spent years playing descent 3 only with my dad. I've been a straight 1v1'er all my life.

And thanks foil! I'll be on tonight fer sure, whether it be 7:00PM or 12:00PM, count on it.

I find that a game with lots of good pilots and a single newbie gets really confusing. I have a harder time hitting the new guy because his movements are so out of place...

I'll play with you Drift; I'm currently learning a new config and have absolutely no skills whatsoever. Look for me in game as \"a newb againn\" feel free to call me out of whatever game I'm in to go battle with you.

Beware though, I might improve a little faster because my challenge right now isn't learning how to play the game; it's just learning my new buttons.

Hey foil + everyone, I'm not going to be playing online for a few days due to wiring issues on my car. So my wish is that some people will attend and keep this server alive. Thanks.

If you want cannon fodder no matter what skill level you are, find Geordon.

PJB wrote:I find that a game with lots of good pilots and a single newbie gets really confusing. I have a harder time hitting the new guy because his movements are so out of place...

This made me giggle. I remember back when I played 25 hours a day years back and for a fair period of time, I was devoted solely to playing 1 vs 1 matches on the original 1-tier IDL and wouldn't play anything else. After a few months of doing that and becoming conditioned to try to hit really good pilots, I started getting into regular 4+ player games on Kali. I can recall one game where there was a very very new pilot who was just going in a slow, straight line and I tricorded and rolled completely around him with Plasma, filling the entire room and every single part of the room around him but didn't so much as hit him with one ball. Strange but amusing flashback.

It's true. The n00blet player can often be the most unpredictable. They throw me off sometimes too with their inane movements.

Some players can emulate that behavior to throw someone off. Although somehow it is hard to play a game seriously when you defeat someone by flying in a manner that was dumber than they were able to imagine.

Krom wrote:Some players can emulate that behavior to throw someone off. Although somehow it is hard to play a game seriously when you defeat someone by flying in a manner that was dumber than they were able to imagine.

A fail so epic it's a win!

NUMBERZero wrote:If you want cannon fodder no matter what skill level you are, find Geordon.

Ain't this the truth? Although he did get a teamkill on me by hiding behind the spawnpoint.

This thread was somewhat encouraging. I've played Descent since it came out, but never multiplayer. Two reasons why: I never had a reliable Internet connection until just recently (believe it or not), and I never learned to play with a stick (I'm KB only). I knew I would suck in multiplayer and last night it was confirmed when I played online for the first time, haha!

But over the last 24 hours I've been thinking about what I can do to get better. And if the rumors regarding D4 are true, I'm going to regret not taking steps now to enjoy myself later. I'll never be great at the game; I know I don't have the commitment. But maybe I can be average. I would be happy with that.

well, about the D4 part, Vision, I can say is wild speculation. Interplay has it on their todo list, but until I hear it's in beta on its way to \"gold\", I'll not be holding my breath.

welcome to the forum, btw. and just fyi, some of the best pilots over the years have been keyboarders!

Play co-ops, it can be fun with friends and optimal difficulty

I agree with Kilarin and some of the long-time players (being one myself). You won't get better by not playing, or playing guys who suck more than you... I played a stint of multiplayer for a few months (shortly after Munk came up with the Level checksum fix in Linux) and I sucked at first, but the more I played, the better I got.

1. Play people better than you, and watch what they do
2. Learn the level, and be in the right place at the right time
3. Learn what weapons you're better with, and try to use them
4. Don't be afraid to ask people what they're doing to get kills
5. The biggest one for me: don't stick around to see if that Mega hit or not... let it fly and get the heck out of there!

I piggybacked on a few players for a few nights, to see where they were going and what tactics they were using. This helps if you're playing a new level.

Practice, practice, practice. See you in the mines!

Thanks guys. Last night I started reconfiguring for KB+Mouse. It was pretty comfortable, but I'm thinking I might have to go KB+Stick or Stick+Mouse to fly like I imagine.

It's difficult trying to unlearn 15 years of muscle memory. Once I feel comfortable flying again, I'll start looking into online games again. In the meantime I'll read some of the fighting tutorials on the Net and see if I learn a trick or two.

Keyboard, mouse and four foot buttons works for me.

http://mysite.verizon.net/mickey1art/id8.html