Descent 1 1/2

[Xfing]

Sweet, thanks for that!

[Alter-Fox]

I've got a few other tracks I'm considering, one of them was a surprisingly-not-completely-failed attempt to sound just a little bit like Type O Negative with a lyrical theme that fits with PTMC's controlling corrupted...ness, one of them is a sort of sequel to one of the DCA2 tracks already in there, and one of them is... well, just some really nice competent guitar playing (by my standards, anyway ) with a story about digging things up and a line about those who "never learned how to fly", so I'm sure there's a metaphor for this game to be found in there somewhere...

Any of them *might* fit, we'll just have to see... I'm also considering replacing that same DCA2 track with something from somebody else. So, plenty of thinking going on, and I might be making more changes to what is and isn't in that folder sometime in the near future.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

So I've been looking at the first post and I see that level 22 and 31 are not taken. Is it alright of I take one of those level slots?
I would like to build without being tied to a level concept like I am with The Countdown.

[LightWolf]

Just gonna nudge Xfing about level 32 real quick. (I sent him the level through Discord a little while back, and he liked it; but it's not marked here and it's not in the dropbox)

[Xfing]

So I've been looking at the first post and I see that level 22 and 31 are not taken. Is it alright of I take one of those level slots?

Sure, take a shot at whichever one you'd like! In fact, if the first level you make is good enough, why not make the other one as well? If you feel so inclined.

I would like to build without being tied to a level concept like I am with The Countdown.

Yeah, we're not aiming for gimmick-based levels here, but more for naturalistic layouts like levels in D1, CS and Vertigo. Excessive symmetry for example is not quite what we're after. Other than that you've pretty much got free rein, the only gimmick is to keep to the level's intended theme - so in your case it should be Zeta Aquilae or Puuma Sphere. I'm particularly excited for the ZA level, since those allow for quite a degree of versatility, while at the same time appearing fresh and somewhat alien-y. Oh, also do remember to put in a texture only present in Descent.PIG here and there if it supports your idea (don't try to cram them in forcibly).

Just gonna nudge Xfing about level 32 real quick. (I sent him the level through Discord a little while back, and he liked it; but it's not marked here and it's not in the dropbox)

Yea, it's a good level. We'll most likely not gonna be keeping the population since the difficulty is ridiculous, also can't guarantee the background track will stay, but the boss thing is resolved as of now, so I'll add it to the list.

[Xfing]

Oh, and just a heads up - I'm going to be integrating the UUD2SP 1.4 into the main HOG. It's faster to do than the other way around, since more recently I've further modded the super lasers & missiles, mostly using D2 Workshop this time, and it's kinda tough to keep track of the changes. Some of the restored Interactive Demo door sounds might take some getting used to, but it's not that bad IMO.

Also, level 45 is up for grabs again, since Sylandrophol is totally AWOL.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

Yeah, we're not aiming for gimmick-based levels here, but more for naturalistic layouts like levels in D1, CS and Vertigo. Excessive symmetry for example is not quite what we're after. Other than that you've pretty much got free rein, the only gimmick is to keep to the level's intended theme - so in your case it should be Zeta Aquilae or Puuma Sphere. I'm particularly excited for the ZA level, since those allow for quite a degree of versatility, while at the same time appearing fresh and somewhat alien-y. Oh, also do remember to put in a texture only present in Descent.PIG here and there if it supports your idea (don't try to cram them in forcibly).

Cool! I'll get started right after I'm done designing a new door for a particular level in The Countdown. It should be finished soon.

[Xfing]

Thanks! The template POG files (if you feel you need them) or just extracted libraries of D1-exclusive textures are in the OP.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

A quick question about secret level entrances. Can I put one in the level I'm making? Just in case that this level is the in right spot for an entrance, it is made ready to go. If not just replace it with a normal secret.

[Xfing]

A quick question about secret level entrances. Can I put one in the level I'm making? Just in case that this level is the in right spot for an entrance, it is made ready to go. If not just replace it with a normal secret.

I was thinking of there being only 6 entrances to secret levels and it would be solved kinda like in Maximum - accessible only when the mine has been wrecked. Not too sure about that last part though - but yea, we have yet to decide which levels will have secret teleporters. So for now maybe it's best if you refrain, we can think about that later

[Alter-Fox]

I have one on charon I think, but it doesn't need to stay. I think it was just an idea for a neat puzzle during the self-destruct sequence and I was doubtful whether someone could reach the regular exit after finishing it.

[Xfing]

I have one on charon I think, but it doesn't need to stay. I think it was just an idea for a neat puzzle during the self-destruct sequence and I was doubtful whether someone could reach the regular exit after finishing it.

Also, it's possible to make it all more organic and have differing numbers of teleporters for certain secret levels. Say, a single one for one, up to three for another. That's also possible for sure. That said, the teleporters should be well-hidden, and we probably should make some neat looking rooms for certain ones, like what TEW has for instance.

[Alter-Fox]

Yeah, I don't completely remember the puzzle but I'd definitely say that one's well-hidden. Probably because I don't remember the puzzle, actually.
In other news, I realized how close we are to having all the level layouts completed... I'm starting my final approach on the OST folder. Changed around a couple of my own songs again, including two improvised tracks (one recent, one from last year) which are fairly minimal as they're both mainly built around vaguely interesting chord progressions on the guitar ... and, excitingly, I finally found a spot to add "Eye of a Storm", which is a sort of unofficial "theme" for the mission that I wrote last year. Some of the vocal lines might just... add a bit of deja vu, when folks are playing.

Unfortunately I've still only been able to tweak my own... I haven't got anything new from anyone else. I did ask Kaizerwolf for a couple more tracks of his, I don't think he received the message though, so I might just try him again somewhere else. I will talk to Pumo as well about "Desert Caves" and "Argon Dreams" which are both tracks he said we can have but he'd like to remaster first.

I've also got this idea for some loose trends, where the D1 section of the mission will have an emphasis on lighter, electronic sorts of tracks, the D2 section will focus a bit more on the metal part of industrial metal, and the Vertigo part will mix those two themes up a bit, as well as repeating a few songs from each of the other two parts.
All the sections are still planned to include all the different styles -- it's just a question of which one will get to be most prominent where.

[Xfing]

Yeah, I don't completely remember the puzzle but I'd definitely say that one's well-hidden. Probably because I don't remember the puzzle, actually.
In other news, I realized how close we are to having all the level layouts completed... I'm starting my final approach on the OST folder. Changed around a couple of my own songs again, including two improvised tracks (one recent, one from last year) which are fairly minimal as they're both mainly built around vaguely interesting chord progressions on the guitar ... and, excitingly, I finally found a spot to add "Eye of a Storm", which is a sort of unofficial "theme" for the mission that I wrote last year. Some of the vocal lines might just... add a bit of deja vu, when folks are playing.

Unfortunately I've still only been able to tweak my own... I haven't got anything new from anyone else. I did ask Kaizerwolf for a couple more tracks of his, I don't think he received the message though, so I might just try him again somewhere else. I will talk to Pumo as well about "Desert Caves" and "Argon Dreams" which are both tracks he said we can have but he'd like to remaster first.

I've also got this idea for some loose trends, where the D1 section of the mission will have an emphasis on lighter, electronic sorts of tracks, the D2 section will focus a bit more on the metal part of industrial metal, and the Vertigo part will mix those two themes up a bit, as well as repeating a few songs from each of the other two parts.
All the sections are still planned to include all the different styles -- it's just a question of which one will get to be most prominent where.

Fantastic, thanks for devoting so much time and effort to the soundtrack, even though I'll probably be sticking to the retro MIDI one for most playthroughs personally (though I'll definitely listen to yours at least once!)

Great that the boards are back btw.

Oh, and I will also need your help on level population, like we've discussed already. Maybe we could coordinate on discord or something and take a look at the excel file on dropbox together and set up some robot populations for the levels. I'm pretty proud of the numerical threat system from that excel file lol. Now was it possible to edit files while on dropbox by 2 ppl at the same time, as if it were google docs? I don't remember

[Alter-Fox]

I'll probably still do it mostly on instinct That always seems to work the best for me with these things/
I have three days off starting tomorrow and only minimal plans -- aside from an appointment or two, I want to mostly stick around the condo so I can be available while my brother's still recovering from his surgery last week.

Where would you like me to start?

I've no idea about dropbox, but speaking of it I did want to check out level 9 and level 21 since I haven't seen those ones yet.

[Xfing]

Talking about this file: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/jdumw5a2 ... w7h8meprix

You already have the rights. Would be nice to at least decide which robots we're going to use in the level (not so much as the numbers) and that way keep track of the balance of the lineup. Obviously all levels up to 5 are now populated, I've been working on 6 myself, but I'm not entirely inspired to continue at the moment, so I'll just upload the latest revision to Dropbox and you can take a look, feel free. As far as weaponry goes, only quad lasers are added compared to earlier.

[Xfing]

Oh, speaking of levels, we've got another level ready! Level 22 by TRUEpiiiicness - really great job there, it feels Zeta Aquilae-ish, while conveying that military feel the level name implies. The only problem is that some texturing choices in the level are a little bit over the top, some questionable decoration choices make the level look dappled and patchy in places. Nothing major though and nothing I can't fix myself. Anyway, great job! That brings us to 48 levels out of 54 laid out, meaning we've only got six to go. And five secret levels. Still, not a bad place to be at all!

[Alter-Fox]

Oh that's great
I have a menacing, slightly Dusk-esque track that I thought could be a potential fit for a map with a military theme. I will check this one's structure out and see if it might work!

EDIT: taking a look at the structure in DLE immediately reminds me of Obsidian's mid-to-late game. I'll take a flythrough in a minute.

EDIT 2: hehe, barely reached the exit. That map's definitely a keeper, but there are so many wrong turns in similar-looking areas that a player could take after the reactor's gone and everything's going all wobbly and strobey, that I wonder whether we should put in a guidebot... it's like all the most visible routes are designed to lead you farther away from the exit. Kinda Ymirus-ish that way, but on there the player does have a guide at least the first time through.
you know, I think I actually have guidebots in almost all my D2-themed maps, just 'cause they were there in the maps I was taking inspiration from.
I like how the triggers tend to activate matcens all over the map at once, that really does feel military.
Thinking of midi tracks, I'd almost want to suggest D1 level 7 but I've already suggested that one for another level that's fairly close by, which I think it would fit better. D1's level 17, 19 or 20 tracks would all probably work pretty well there. Though I think 17 might be a better choice for Coolyard. Decisions, decisions, eh?

Also had a fly through of Quartzon Factory... two thoughts came to mind. First of all, that the water and rock sections could use some extra secondary textures, like gratings, pipes, and reinforcements, to reinforce the idea that this place is in fact being used for a factory and isn't just a series of underground pools and waterfalls. Secondly, that one free-standing waterfall in the room with the blue key looks very strange to me. I wonder if there's a way to rearrange the segments there and add just a little bit of depth to it, the way Parallax liked to do it in, saaay, Vertigo's seventh level.
As far as music for that one goes... given its place in the mission I don't really want to use one of my own tracks. One of Jay's would probably work, or maybe one of the ones I want to get from Kaizerwolf... Pumo's "Argon Dreams" would probably be a very good fit too, and, at least on the old version of it that I have, it's got that "factory" feeling with the pads and the repeating synthesized guitars.
As midi goes it might be a good spot to use either the D2 level 1 or 2 track...

I like that two of our Quartzon maps feel kinda damp, dark and creepy.
Always felt that was a missed opportunity in D2 (four out of five water levels being fairly well-lit and all of them using mostly Earth-like colours) and most of Vertigo (out of seven levels with lots of water, only the last one seemed really shadowy).

Haven't gone through Proteus yet, might find some time to do that tomorrow.

[Xfing]

Feel free to do secondary/tertiary mapping at any time - as long as you keep the files on Dropbox when you're done, I can work off that. I might take a look today at those weirder textures in level 22 and try to do something about them too. Guidebot is definitely a good idea, I failed to make it to the exit by a hair and the automap itself is not helpful enough, since there's just too much geometry to keep track of where you're supposed to go. I think we'll be working the guidebot into every level past the Solar System, just like in canon Counterstrike. I would refrain from putting supplies or secret doors beyond the prison grate though - it's not good design to encourage releasing the guidebot just to get to some goodies and then deal with him spamming you with messages if you don't want that. We can and should put some secret stuff right next to the blastable door every now and then though, that would be a nice way of compensating for that decision.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

Many thanks for the reviews.

One more thing about level 22, I believe I forgot to set triggers for the matcen above the hostage forcefield. There should be one coming out of the nearby yellow door and two more coming from both directions from the area with the blue key.

[Xfing]

Many thanks for the reviews.

One more thing about level 22, I believe I forgot to set triggers for the matcen above the hostage forcefield. There should be one coming out of the nearby yellow door and two more coming from both directions from the area with the blue key.

Care to fix that? Then I'll do the remaining work on that version, thanks

[TRUEpiiiicness]

Care to fix that? Then I'll do the remaining work on that version, thanks

Done and sent

[TRUEpiiiicness]

By the way, would you mind sending the a copy of the level back after you have done with it so I can look at it and improve levels in the future.
Also it'll be less work for you then.

And speaking of making levels, am I worthy enough to do level 31 now that I have shown what I can do?

[Alter-Fox]

I think so. X?

[Xfing]

Yep, by all means go ahead! A nice Puuma Sphere level would indeed be nice to have. I've grown really fond of that aesthetic after Maximum for some reason lol

As for the changes to your level, they're going to be minimal - just a few textures here and there that kinda felt forced in or a bit odd, planning no changes to the geometry (at least until we start adding secret teleporters to the levels)

Since it's a Counterstrike system, no need to go ham on the D1 influences. No need for D1 monitors for this particular system either I suppose, since those are basically alien installations taken over by PTMC robots. But you are very welcome to use some textures from D1 that fit and complement the theme but weren't used by Parallax. In fact my level 5 was made with a color concept of "Puuma sphere, but with D1 textures only". Especially some of those whites could see use, but keep in mind that the tried and true, universal and unhospitable gray stone is always a good choice as well.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

Nice! I've got a good idea of what the level will be be like. Since the second word of the name is an anagram of stranded, imagine d1 level 23 where there is obvious sections for each key with corridors and rooms in between. Some or all sections will block you in with with a wall or similar until to a you finish that section. So you'll be stranded there in a way.

Because it's the first puuma level, it'll be mostly dark caves with little to no light for a maximum-like atmosphere. Gotta set an alien scene.

As for the textures, the only greens I can think of off the top of my head to import is the green cobblestone and its dark varient. And that d1 gray you mention is the texture I always use for when secondary texture covers a cube side completely so it doesn't get messed up with alignment.

[Xfing]

I meant this gray of course, calling it universal (though in D2 it was largely replaced by the derived, more spotted one):



Anyway, your description does seem very exciting! Thanks for your contributions and good luck with the level!

[Xfing]

I marked off the recently claimed levels in the thread - Parabolicus will be taking care of level S4 and TRUEpiicness will do level 31.

[Alter-Fox]

Thought Parabol said he wasn't interested?

[Xfing]

Oh ok, I missed that. too baaad

[Alter-Fox]

Adding a couple more Pumo tracks (!) to the google drive, as well as replacing a few more of my own with newer ones that might follow similar ideas but I feel are more dynamic.

Also might have some time to do a bit more map-populating in the coming week -- we'll see.

[Alter-Fox]

Just for fun.

I like adding small things to the lore of games that don't have much
And I like the idea that, beyond its weapons, Fusion Hulk is literally a fusion of the other hulk bots

[Xfing]

I'm super excited about the ability to have robot briefings in D2 - the only question is will Chocolate Descent support these when we're ready to move on to making the briefings

Judging by the pace of work it might hahahaah

Sorry about being so inactive - the pandemic has kinda made me busy myself with other sorts of stuff, and I haven't even been playing much Descent recently. That is bound to change for sure, and then my involvement in this project will likewise increase. Huge thanks to Fox for making the music as well as taking care of many robot populations in the meantime.

[LightWolf]

Chocolate D2 will only support whatever DOS D2 did.

[Xfing]

Alright, so I decided to maybe stop being a lazy mofukre and integrated levels 14 and 15 into the main HOG. Guess soon it's gonna be about time to change the main hog from d15demo.hog to just d15.hog?

I think I'll start populating the next level in line, which is Makemake. We've already got a gimmick level where there are only melee bots, so guess I'll go about this in a pretty standard fashion. Probably gonna be lots of platform bots, since the level is very pink, and that's the only pink bot I can think of. Also probably quite a bunch of Fervids and Medium Hulks. I'm probably leaving Super Hulks for Sedna or even the next chapter.

I think I'll also see if there's enough room for some new cubes in level 15 so I can create some pedestal or another worthy introduction for the Mega Missile in that level.

Could anyone get ahold of Shroudeye and see if he's up for making another secret level? Still can't get enough of his Solar System level, it's just so awesome.

[Alter-Fox]

He pops on to the Overload discord from time to time.
Don't get to talk to him as much as I'd like, though, 'cause his timezone is just about the opposite of my own.
You're in Europe, though-- if you hung around there, you'd probably have a better chance.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

Finally finished level 31!
I think my next target is level 45, but I'm not sure whether to name it 'Artosis Deep Station' or 'Deep Station Artosis'. Which one sounds better?

[TRUEpiiiicness]

One more thing about level 45, it will be a zeta aquilae level

Also for the people who can see levels in that dropbox. I bet you can't find what is special about the location of the three keys in level 31. Hint: Look at the Automap.

[TRUEpiiiicness]

What's the current stance on the unused-in-d1 spanner doors? Can they be used freely in a level like the grated doors but for rooms with an energy center?

[Xfing]

What's the current stance on the unused-in-d1 spanner doors? Can they be used freely in a level like the grated doors but for rooms with an energy center?

Hey! Sweet job finishing level 31, I'll check it out today, I promise. Haven't been dropping by recently and now I'm also painting my room so it's a bit hectic, but I'm definitely still around hehe

As for the spanner door - it's a perfectly functional door and I think it's actually been used once or twice in the mission already, though I think it should be used very sparingly if going for FS/CS/Vertigo authenticity, since it wasn't used there. Gonna remind people of Vignettes a lot if used. But dunno man, guess if you really want to you can use it. But to compensate you also need to use some D1-exclusive textures to round out the theme you're going for! haha