Famous Atheist Now Believes in God

Shoku · Post by **Shoku** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:03 pm

Interesting Article.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=315976

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:08 pm

Not true....

"I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins," he said. "It could be a person in the sense of a being that has intelligence and a purpose, I suppose."

Bettina

Plebeian · Post by **Plebeian** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:15 pm

bet51987 wrote:Not true....

He certainly believes in a God, though he makes it clear that it's not the same God of the "big three" religions. Maybe "Creator" would have been a better term, as that may not have quite so many of the same connotations as "God".

Interesting to note that he's now categorized as a deist, which is about where I'd place myself (if forced to confine myself to a single "type").

(Or did you take exception to his description of the Christian/Islamic God?)

Avder · Post by **Avder** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 3:57 pm

For some reason this reminds me of the end of Star Trek 1. You know, the one with the space probe returning to earth in a ship the size of the friggin' moon?

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:29 pm

gods are gods. Something to explain things outside of our range of thought for the time being. Makes no difference if they're polytheistic or monotheistic. Creator would be politically correct and we can't be having that now Plebeian

That was V'Ger, Vader. I really liked how they incorporated the fact that it was Voyager returning home hundreds of years later to find the one who had created it. Ironically enough it didn't accept that mankind had created it to start off with.

Vertigo 99 · Post by **Vertigo 99** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:36 pm

i used to be agnostic, but now, i am clearly and certainly a believer in God. I believe that It is quite far from what is generally believed to be "god."

I find it irrational to believe that anything that is not perfect to have created the universe. if anything less than perfect created the universe, than the universe isn't perfect. if the universe is infinite, and truly is EVERYTHING, than it must be perfect. a perfect thing could only have been made by God.

however, it is also illogical for God to be an external force - if the universe truly is EVERYTHING, how can there be something outside of it? it is also illogical for God to merely be a PART of the universe; for then, God would not be perfect. The only conclusion is that God is the Universe, and he created himself.

God is everything. He is infinite, like the universe.

I believe in the universe, so I believe in God.

Gooberman · Post by **Gooberman** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:38 pm

nope!

I figured I should post in this thread sence my name was mentioned.

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:14 pm

You must have read it before I edited it. Been talking with the same set of people so often Plebeian took me completely off guard

Avder · Post by **Avder** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:40 pm

Ahhh yes, V'Ger.

Some interesting philisophical undertones there.

Bet51987 · Post by **Bet51987** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:17 pm

Plebeian wrote:
bet51987 wrote:Not true....
He certainly believes in a God, though he makes it clear that it's not the same God of the "big three" religions. Maybe "Creator" would have been a better term, as that may not have quite so many of the same connotations as "God".

Interesting to note that he's now categorized as a deist, which is about where I'd place myself (if forced to confine myself to a single "type").

(Or did you take exception to his description of the Christian/Islamic God?)

No execption....I just view it as another "God of the gaps". Putting God into a spot thats unexplained. Also, even atheists begin to get worried when they get older. I probably will too someday, but right now, I don't believe in the God of the bible, but maybe there is a creator...I just don't know.
I really feel sorry for those who waste their entire lives praying like those cloistered nuns on EWTN. Geez, they could be helping out so much in childrens hospitals which would be a much better service. Some of them do I know, but not those.
Anyway, I don't want to go here anymore because I've already lost Lothar and Drakona and I don't want to become hated because of my views.

Bettina

TheCops · Post by **TheCops** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:37 pm

bet51987 wrote:Anyway, I don't want to go here anymore because I've already lost Lothar and Drakona and I don't want to become hated because of my views.
Bettina

lol!
i think those 2 are quite comfortable with their spiritual path. i doubt 'hate' is the word they'd use.

i'm an old bat and i don't believe in "god". you have the right as a being to question what is out there (it's natural). why are you apologizing? are you vlider?

Tyranny · Post by **Tyranny** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:30 pm

Usually Lothar and Drakona would be all over most of these threads that we've had recently. I haven't seen Lothar post anything since that Longhorn post we had early last month in the Tech Forum. Did I miss a memo or something?

Phoenix Red · Post by **Phoenix Red** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:42 am

Vertigo 99 wrote:i used to be agnostic, but now, i am clearly and certainly a believer in God. I believe that It is quite far from what is generally believed to be "god."

I find it irrational to believe that anything that is not perfect to have created the universe. if anything less than perfect created the universe, than the universe isn't perfect. if the universe is infinite, and truly is EVERYTHING, than it must be perfect. a perfect thing could only have been made by God.

however, it is also illogical for God to be an external force - if the universe truly is EVERYTHING, how can there be something outside of it? it is also illogical for God to merely be a PART of the universe; for then, God would not be perfect. The only conclusion is that God is the Universe, and he created himself.

God is everything. He is infinite, like the universe.

I believe in the universe, so I believe in God.

Found Descartes huh? How would you feel if I told you he wrote that passage of the Discourse in order to support mind/body dualism so that he's have a religious arguement to use against the church people who wanted him to stop cutting up dead bodies?

Seriously, re-read that with an eye for pointing out assumptions, particularly where he throws aruond the word "perfect".

Ferno · Post by **Ferno** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:45 am

Who is anyone to judge what he believes in?

If he believes in a higher power, alright.. have fun dude.

Phoenix Red · Post by **Phoenix Red** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:05 am

Ferno wrote:Who is anyone to judge what he believes in?

If he believes in a higher power, alright.. have fun dude.

I'm questioning his source, not his actual belief. I've no desire or right to argue his belief in god outside a mutually enjoyable debate, but taking Descartes at face value is an error.

Vertigo 99 · Post by **Vertigo 99** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:22 am

Phoenix Red wrote:
Vertigo 99 wrote:i used to be agnostic, but now, i am clearly and certainly a believer in God. I believe that It is quite far from what is generally believed to be "god."

I find it irrational to believe that anything that is not perfect to have created the universe. if anything less than perfect created the universe, than the universe isn't perfect. if the universe is infinite, and truly is EVERYTHING, than it must be perfect. a perfect thing could only have been made by God.

however, it is also illogical for God to be an external force - if the universe truly is EVERYTHING, how can there be something outside of it? it is also illogical for God to merely be a PART of the universe; for then, God would not be perfect. The only conclusion is that God is the Universe, and he created himself.

God is everything. He is infinite, like the universe.

I believe in the universe, so I believe in God.
Found Descartes huh? How would you feel if I told you he wrote that passage of the Discourse in order to support mind/body dualism so that he's have a religious arguement to use against the church people who wanted him to stop cutting up dead bodies?

Seriously, re-read that with an eye for pointing out assumptions, particularly where he throws aruond the word "perfect".

Duh. Of course he wrote it to support dualism; a fundamentally flawed argument. That doesn't stop it from being all trash. I don't believe it because I saw his writings and instantly said to myself "OMG DESARTES IS GENIUS," i believe it because its logical in my mind and its something that ive thought a lot about.

And i would say that most of my beliefs are spinozan rather than Cartesian.

Plebeian · Post by **Plebeian** » Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:07 am

Tyranny wrote:Creator would be politically correct and we can't be having that now Plebeian

"Heavenly Body" forbid....

Bet51897 wrote:No execption....I just view it as another "God of the gaps". Putting God into a spot thats unexplained. Also, even atheists begin to get worried when they get older. I probably will too someday, but right now, I don't believe in the God of the bible, but maybe there is a creator...I just don't know.

What I believe is that all these god(s) that people currently and previously worship/believe in/whatever are all the same... "Whatever"... that started this whole thing. Put together all the religions of the world, and you're probably not too far removed from whatever the "truth" of all this is.

I don't believe in God as presented by the Bible, but then again, I don't take the Bible as a literal translation of history. I believe Something kickstarted this whole place, set up the system, and is more or less sitting back and watching the Universe unfold.

Though of course, every single one of us could be wrong, as well. It's pretty much impossible to truly know this whole Meaning of Life jazz, but of course, isn't that what drives us most of the time? Trying to figure out the world around us? (Or at least, the part we want to acknowledge.)