DescentBB

I think Roid suggested that the engine for Core Decision is the same as Doom3. Just to clear that up I asked Zbriggs if I could post this picture concerning the engine used in Core Decision. Of course it is subject to change without notice and is valid as of 12/27/05.



As you can see, it's definetly not the Doom3 engine.

Dynamic soft shadowing would be significant if it could be pulled off without a tremendous performance hit. Both Doom 3 (and UnrealEngine 3, I think) can have dynamic shadows, but they have sharp edges. It's one of the most computationally expensive aspects.

Also, keep in mind, we are not likely to remove a feature, we would probably just not use it. This means that regardless of whether or not we release content that supports each of the functions above the engine supports it and content can be made for it, both expansions and user content.

Zach

This is making me seriously rethink getting UT2007 for level editing. However, I'm sure that UT2007 would support moving lights that could simulate day/night progression. Also, isn't one of UE3's major graphics points full-scene real-time soft shadowing?

And frankly, the Doom 3 engine is a thin speck of the tip of the iceberg.

ah i had it mixed up with the \"Into Cerebron\" Descent mod for Doom 3.

If you guys find anything on that Engine comparison chart that is incorrect let us know via email and send you sources in the email. *Links please.

Email them to zach@highoctane.biz.


Zach

Dynamic Day/Night Lighting and Shadowing is a tricky one to evaluate, mainly because it depends on how fancy you want to get with it. How much is real versus how much is faked.

If you actually sit there and analyze Grand Theft Auto: Vice City's cycle, the textures on buildings don't change (even stores that appear \"lit\" at night are \"lit\" during the day), shadows don't move, and the dynamics of the world don't change. On the other hand, they do pop on neon trim decorations, change the skydome, and put some point lights around headlamps and traffic signals.

The new Tony Hawk: American Wasteland title is similar, but they go to the extent of turning baked shadows on the ground on and off with time.

From Core Decision, it would sound as though shadows actually rotate around as the \"sun\" passes overhead.

Automatic visibility culling is also a really cool next-gen feature. You don't really have to place \"portals\" anymore. The engine is responsible for figuring out if an object occludes another and, if so, removes it from being rendered. In Unreal terms, everything is now an Antiportal. The quirk of this, however, is that object count generally becomes an issue. Depending on how the occluder works, it may have to iterate on hundreds of objects to figure out what is and isn't in view.

Kyouryuu wrote:shadows don't move, and the dynamics of the world don't change. On the other hand, they do pop on neon trim decorations, change the skydome, and put some point lights around headlamps and traffic signals.

The shadows change with the position of the sun, the sky changes, visibility changes, and lights can be set to come on based on light.

Kyouryuu wrote: Automatic visibility culling is also a really cool next-gen feature. You don't really have to place "portals" anymore. The engine is responsible for figuring out if an object occludes another and, if so, removes it from being rendered. In Unreal terms, everything is now an Antiportal. The quirk of this, however, is that object count generally becomes an issue. Depending on how the occluder works, it may have to iterate on hundreds of objects to figure out what is and isn't in view.

The engine presently optimizes the object indexs and maintains lists for zones. This allows for it to not really have to cycle as much as one would think.

Zach

At the moment all I'm wondering is whether or not there are level development limits. Examples: you cannot have more than 200 separate faces for a designated room (Descent 3); you cannot have more than 3000 faces in a room total (Descent 3); cannot have more than 400 rooms (Descent 3); you cannot go beyond the designated boundary of the level without weird things happening (Descent 3); cannot have more than 30 subojects (parts) to a robot (Descent 3); the grid size is limited to 16384 in all directions from 0,0,0 (Half-Life 2, takes about 40 seconds to drive from one end of such a map to the other); cannot have so many of this or that; and so on. Development limits; very annoying. Are there any? If so, I'd recommend making them so large it'd be impossible to reach them (Example: Doom 3's near-infinite map sizes) and simply recommend limits instead. By that I mean that whatever editor will be available for Core Decision will warn if one has gone over the recommended limits.

From what little I understand the limits a on a magnitude of 100 or greater from D3 not a factor of ten but a factor of 100 hell maybe it was a factor of 1000 eitehr way it didn't seem comprehensible for someone to reach those numbers.

Of course I am nobody and I don't know anything so don't quote me. About all I remember was that was one of the things that forced me to pin my jaw shut and change my britches.

Hopefully someone from HO can clear up the mess I just started

It's late I'm tired but I had two shiney pennies in my pocket

KB

Hey KB you got a nice combination of post counts

\"Posts: 8888\"

Skyalmian wrote:At the moment all I'm wondering is whether or not there are level development limits. Development limits; very annoying.

In the vast pantheon of Descent 3 levels, only 1% have ever come close. Besides, if you are, you're probably overbuilding anyway.

On the realtime shadowing subject, while optimizing it for the best performance is good, it's also good to have an easy out, allow hard shadows instead of soft, or completely disable dynamic shadows (with the ability of the level editor to override that setting in special cases when a dynamic shadow is needed for some object to convey the story). So even if it is really rough on low end systems to do the shadowing I really doubt there will be a problem adjusting the settings to get optimal performance out of most PCs.

Kyouryuu wrote:In the vast pantheon of Descent 3 levels, only 1% have ever come close. Besides, if you are, you're probably overbuilding anyway.

True. And while such limits like 3000 faces are tolerable, what I don't find tolerable is a grid or overall size limit. Some people may want to build very large but keep it simple. Example: Halo.

ZBriggs, is there such a grid limit?

Krom wrote:On the realtime shadowing subject, while optimizing it for the best performance is good, it's also good to have an easy out, allow hard shadows instead of soft, or completely disable dynamic shadows (with the ability of the level editor to override that setting in special cases when a dynamic shadow is needed for some object to convey the story). So even if it is really rough on low end systems to do the shadowing I really doubt there will be a problem adjusting the settings to get optimal performance out of most PCs.

Also, in case no one has realized, a quick out of realtime soft shadows is hard shadows on lightmapped surfaces, i.e. Nexuiz. It won't work for colored lights, but otherwise, it looks perfect.

Also, will there be diffuse shadows (aka fuzzy around the edges)?

Also, will there be diffuse shadows (aka fuzzy around the edges)?

Thats what everyone means by \"soft shadows\".

Krom wrote:

Also, will there be diffuse shadows (aka fuzzy around the edges)?

Thats what everyone means by "soft shadows".

Thanks for clearing that up, I wasn't sure if diffuse was soft or shadows that were not completely black(i.e. Doom3) but had some of the environment below visible.